Transcripts / Transcripciones

[Jamillah James] What was your first encounter of Yoko Ono and her work?

[Jon Hendricks] Back in 1965, that’s a long time ago, I met her at the subway station.

[James] Wow.

[Hendricks] And encountered her. And we started talking. And we talked for an hour.

[James] My first encounter of Yoko was really through her music. As someone who’s an avid record collector, picking up Season of Glass when I was in college was really a formative exchange with her work, and also as someone who’s deeply into psychedelic music, Plastic Ono Band is a critical, crucial album. So it wasn’t through the art necessarily until I was in college and learning about Fluxus. That was the second introduction, but it was really through her music, which I think is a way that a lot of people understand and know her work.

[Connor Monahan] For Yoko, it all started with music. When she was around four years old, her parents enrolled her in a special preschool for musical training. In that school, one of the homework assignments was to listen to the sounds of the day and try and transcribe those into notes. It’s something that Yoko remembered vividly. It led to her first instruction work called Secret Piece: “Decide on one note that you want to play. Play it with the following accompaniment, the woods from 5:00 a.m. to 8:00 a.m. in summer.”

Something that always followed Yoko is an idea that nothing remains the same. A statue, a painting, a sculpture in time will vanish. And so rather than try and hold onto something that can’t be held onto, Yoko wanted to make it into a positive and to put change into the work.

Yoko grew up between America and Japan, and that led to her having a sense of not really belonging in one place. I think it’s really important to try and recognize what it could be like to be a Japanese woman coming to America in the late 1950s and trying to establish herself as an artist and a composer in a world where there was no such thing as a female composer. By 1960, Yoko’s practice had mainly been focused on music, poetry. When she made her first public display of any work, it was about painting, Painting to Be Stepped On, 1960, which invited some physical participation, but also this mental participation of viewing the canvas through the idea of an instruction. In 1962, when she went to Japan, she then pivoted away completely from the object and began showing the instructions as just the texts themselves. Yoko indisputably became a critical bridge, first by bringing the ideas around Fluxus and the downtown artistic movements of New York to Japan in 1962, and then again bringing those ideas back to New York and then bringing those ideas to London. She was a communicator and an organizer.

[James] In 1964, the book Grapefruit was produced, which is a compilation of various instructions that Yoko wrote to engage the audience. Why has text and language been so important to her, and an enduring material?

[Monahan] In the 1960s, Marshall McLuhan said, “The medium is the message,” and Yoko countered that by saying: “The message is the medium.” It’s inviting the audience into some form of participation, whether that be physically or mentally.

[James] Cut Piece is perhaps Yoko’s best-known work. Why do you think it continues to be influential?

[Hendricks] There are so many meanings or elements to Cut Piece. She was interested in the sound of the scissors. It’s traditionally framed as a feminist work, but it also has to do with class.

[Monahan] Concealment, revealing. Cut Piece is a new performance each time it’s performed, and it reflects something new about the time we’re living in in terms of tensions and aggressions and consent. From the very beginning, all of Yoko’s performances were instructionalized. She considered all of them as works for other people to perform as well. It was never just about Yoko performing them.

[James] Naturally, this leads into her peace activism. Thinking about the Bed-In, War Is Over, the Imagine Peace campaign, so on and so forth. Why do you think that this has been an ongoing concern for her?

[Monahan] I think there’s, you know, direct lines between all of the events you list. And Yoko’s work, so you look at something like the War is Over! if you want it campaign, and we have Yoko’s earlier infiltration of art as advertising in the mid-1960s. She’s interested in bringing forward these ideas that the audience has agency, the individual has agency, and individual actions have ripple effects. Something like the Bed-In for Peace that Yoko Ono and John Lennon stage in 1969, that is performance, that is theater. When they move into music, it’s the same thing about using language to communicate ideas and communicate activism. “Give Peace a Chance,” “Happy Xmas (War Is Over),” “Imagine,” all of this is about giving the individual agency to change the world.

[Hendricks] Basically, it happened as a very young child. Her experience of the fire bombing in Tokyo, hearing about Hiroshima and Nagasaki, all of her life, she was trying to find, is trying to find ways to express it. War Is Over! if you want it is one expression, but Refugee Boat is another.

[James] As someone who’s really invested in looking at the different ways that artists are engaging with the world around them, I appreciate that Yoko’s work is really open and inviting to people to have an encounter or to take an idea and run with it.

[Monahan] This idea that Yoko says, I just always come back to, “The job of the artist is not to destroy but to change the value of things.” The amount of potential in that is incredible to me. Everything’s unfinished. There’s always the possibility of change, and I think this puts you in a really hopeful place to live.

[Jamillah James] ¿Cuál fue tu primer encuentro con Yoko Ono y su obra?

[Jon Hendricks] Allá por 1965, hace mucho tiempo, la conocí en la estación del metro.

[James] ¡Guau! – Me la topé, y simplemente empezamos a hablar. Hablamos durante una hora.

[James] Mi primer encuentro con Yoko fue mediante su música. Al ser una ávida coleccionista de discos, comprar Season of Glass cuando estaba en la universidad fue un encuentro formativo con su trabajo, y también como alguien que está muy interesado en la música psicodélica, Plastic Ono Band es un álbum fundamental y crucial. No fue necesariamente mediante el arte sino hasta que estuve en la universidad y me enteré de Fluxus. Esa fue la segunda introducción, pero fue mediante su música, que es una forma en que mucha gente entiende y conoce su trabajo.

[Connor Monahan] Para Yoko, todo comenzó con la música. Cuando tenía alrededor de cuatro años, sus padres la inscribieron en un programa preescolar de entrenamiento musical. En esa escuela, una de las tareas era escuchar los sonidos del día y tratar de transcribirlos en notas. Es algo que Yoko recordaría vívidamente. Eso la llevó a su primera obra de instrucción llamada Pieza secreta. “Decide una nota que quieras tocar. Tócala con el siguiente acompañamiento: los bosques de 5:00 a.m. a 8:00 a.m. en verano”.

Algo que siempre siguió a Yoko es una idea de que nada permanece igual. Una estatua, una pintura, una escultura con el tiempo desaparecerá. En lugar de intentar aferrarse a algo que no se puede retener, Yoko quiso convertirlo en algo positivo y agregarle a su arte la posibilidad de cambio. Yoko creció entre Estados Unidos y Japón, y eso la llevó a tener un sentido de no pertenecer a un solo lugar. Creo que es muy importante tratar de entender qué significaba ser una mujer japonesa que llega a Estados Unidos a finales de los años 50 y trata de establecerse como artista y compositora en un mundo donde no existía tal cosa como una mujer compositora. Para 1960, la práctica de Yoko se había centrado principalmente en la música, la poesía. Cuando realizó su primera exhibición pública de cualquier obra, fue sobre pintura, Pintura para ser pisada, 1960, que invitaba a cierta participación física, pero también a esta participación mental de ver el lienzo mediante la idea de una instrucción. En 1962, cuando fue a Japón, se alejó completamente del objeto y comenzó a mostrar las instrucciones como solo el texto en sí. Yoko indudablemente se convirtió en un puente fundamental, primero al llevar las ideas sobre Fluxus y los movimientos artísticos del centro de Nueva York a Japón en 1962, y luego llevando nuevamente esas ideas de vuelta a Nueva York y luego llevando esas ideas a Londres. Ella fue una comunicadora y una organizadora.

[James] En 1964, se produjo el libro Pomelo, que es una compilación de varias instrucciones que Yoko escribió para involucrar al público. ¿Por qué han sido tan importantes el texto y el lenguaje para ella en un material duradero?

[Monahan] En la década de 1960, Marshall McLuhan dijo: “El medio es el mensaje”, y Yoko respondió diciendo: “El mensaje es el medio”. Es invitar al público a participar de alguna forma, ya sea física o mentalmente.

[James] Pieza cortada es quizás la obra más conocida de Yoko. ¿Por qué crees que sigue siendo importante?

[Hendricks] Hay tantos significados o elementos en Pieza cortada. Le interesaba el sonido de las tijeras. Tradicionalmente se enmarca como una obra feminista, pero también tiene que ver con la clase.

[Monahan] Ocultamiento, revelación. Pieza cortada es una performance nueva cada vez que se realiza, y refleja algo nuevo sobre el tiempo en el que vivimos en términos de tensiones y progresiones y consentimiento. Desde el principio, todas las performances de Yoko fueron instruidas. Las consideraba a todas como obras para que otras personas las interpretaran también. Nunca se trató solo de que Yoko las interpretara.

[James] Naturalmente, esto lleva a su activismo por la paz. Pienso en el encamada, La guerra ha terminado, la campaña Imagina la paz, y así sucesivamente. ¿Por qué esto ha sido una preocupación constante para ella?

[Monahan] Creo que hay líneas directas entre todos los eventos que mencionas. En el trabajo de Yoko ves algo como la campaña ¡La guerra ha terminado! Si lo deseas, y tenemos la infiltración temprana de Yoko del arte como publicidad a mediados de los años 60. Le interesa presentar estas ideas de que el público puede participar, el individuo puede participar, y las acciones individuales tienen efectos dominó. Algo como La cama de la paz que Yoko Ono y John Lennon organizaron en 1969, es performance, es teatro. Cuando se trasladan a la música, es lo mismo sobre usar el lenguaje para comunicar ideas y comunicar activismo. “Dale una oportunidad a la paz”, “Feliz Navidad (la guerra ha terminado)”, “Imagina”, todo se trata de darle al individuo la capacidad de cambiar el mundo.

[Hendricks] Básicamente, sucedió cuando era muy niña. Su experiencia del bombardeo en Tokio, al escuchar sobre Hiroshima y Nagasaki, toda su vida trata de encontrar formas de expresarlo. ¡La guerra ha terminado! Si lo deseas es una expresión, pero Barco de refugiados es otra.

[James] Como alguien que le interesa observar las diferentes formas en que los artistas se involucran con el mundo que los rodea, aprecio que la obra de Yoko sea muy abierta e invite a las personas a tener un encuentro o a tomar una idea y seguir con ella.

[Monahan] Esta idea que Yoko dice, y que siempre vuelvo a ella, “El trabajo del artista no es destruir sino cambiar el valor de las cosas”. La cantidad de potencial en eso me parece increíble. Todo está inconcluso. Siempre existe la posibilidad de cambio, y creo que eso te pone en un lugar muy esperanzador para vivir.

[Narrator] In the nineteenth year following Japan’s defeat in World War II, the happy atmosphere of contemporary Japan is full of superficial peace. yet some young people today resist the myth of happiness. Any place and any thing can become the object of their artistic acts.

[Ono] Art is not a special thing. Anyone can do it. Making art does not have to be so unusual. What I means is that middle-aged men and housewives, your neighbors, can also do it. Being an artist is not so unusual. If everybody were to become an artist, what we call “art” would disappear. I think it would be fine if this were to happen and [what I have envisioned] becomes a reality.

[Kato] Our society is so peaceful now, people are complacent. In this situation, the animalistic, or what is usually perceived to be an immoral, filthy, or grotesque action, may seem all the more sublime. Those who sand on their two legs may feel shocked, unable to make sense of such actions. They may feel fearful or suspicious of the fact that they have lived everyday life so free of care, in such a peaceful atmosphere.

[Shinohara] Painting also has trends. First there was Realism and Impressionism, then fashions rapidly changed and abstraction, which is difficult to understand, came into vogue. Now we don’t understand any of it, right? Any of abstract painting. After abstraction, artists started spurting paint onto canvas, throwing all their energy into a new form of abstraction. Bang, bang. I was on TV a lot and was very popular at this time. My style became a type of fashion as well. Then, when we did too much of what we were doing, the fashion changed yet again. I started bringing familiar things into my paintings such as Marilyn Monroe’s fact, the billboard sign of a movie, a Coca-Cola bottle, canned goods, and cartoon images. People today call it Pop Art and it’s very popular in the United States. Yeah, artists are romanticists after all. They want their art to shock people big-time. Although so many artworks are shocking, the reality is more shocking to those who cannot accept art. For example, [John F.] Kennedy was assassinated and Marilyn [Monroe] died. The popularity of the Beatles exceeds our everyday imagination. Isn’t it tremendous? Extraordinary? They can make millions of dollars a week. Such realities far surpass the shocking impact of art on society. Therefore, it becomes difficult for artists to think of a way to create art that will capture people’s imagination. Nothing is accomplished if I come home and portray something, merely moving paint from palette to canvas. For me, looking at other people’s work is much more interesting than making something myself. There are many artists I like. I look at their works and then create something exactly like what I have seen. Many of my paintings resemble somebody else’s works and I show them as mine. I call them “imitations” or “fakes.” And I have found true pleasure in doing this. It fits me so perfectly. It is perhaps the newest thing in the world, a revolutionary idea. When art has reached this point, creativity is senseless, art must be art itself. I think the idea of art has been pushed to its limits.

[Tanaka] The theme that I have been pursuing is the abnormal life of contemporary people who have been pushed to their limits as the result of the extreme development of mechanized civilization. This is what I have been exploring. According to existing music theory, in a symphony, some sounds are designated as harmonious melodies. I wonder if they are really beautiful sounds, though. Take the construction site of a building. It produces noises that are intensely violent. These are also definitely a type of sound, the beautiful sounds of man-made destruction. I am seeking the possibility of expanding the range of what can be called a “beautiful” sound. That is what I mean to say. In addition, I seek to give form to the abnormal life of contemporary people who have been corrupted and pushed to the limit by mechanized civilization, which also becomes the basis of motion used in my work.

[Nakamura] Baron Pierre de Coubertin said, “The most important thing about the Olympic Games is not winning but participation.” In that sense, the Olympic Games emerge as a tourist site for all people, including the players, administrators, and the general public. To rephrase Baron de Coubertin, we come to the conclusion that “The most important thing about the Olympic Games is to take part in them and to eat.”

[Narrator] Thus, they leap out of the museum and freely undertake artistic acts wherever they wish. There is no jury there. The audience that happens to be there participates.

[Ono] To call it the “sky of the future” may sound strange, but the sky can be that of the past, future, or present. We sometimes buy things that seem useless in real life but are, in the end, necessary because we want to buy them. For example, to “sell morning.” It’s a useless act. But by actively inserting such a useless act, or other useless things, into everyday life, perhaps I can delay culture, so to speak. This is what I am interested in doing.

[Kato] It’s a universe that has never really been imagined and cannot be measured by ordinary human perception. We tried to take a peek at the history of such a universe and believe that it has reached a point that makes our inhabitation there possible. We hung there like that because we believe that we could go to that universe, bringing the means to live there with us.

[Narrator] There is no audience to participate in their artistic act here.

[Ono] I’m going back to New York soon. For a Japanese to say “going back” may sound funny, but for me New York feels like a place that I return to.

[Shinohara] New York has a completely different perspective. It is, well, so cool. When I go to New York, I won’t be a snob. My strategy will be to become the most unusual Japanese there, making the best use of my Japanese identity. If Fujiyama sells, I will play into this. Because it is my heritage, the Fujiyama and the geisha. I can sing Naniwabushi [popular songs that originated in nineteenth-century Osaka] too. If I can play into Orientalism, I will. If interest in it wanes, I will move on to the next thing. That’s the motto of my art. So, I’m thinking of going to New York.

[Ono] I did various things here in Japan, but it seemed that what I was doing was not understood and disappeared into thin air. I always felt as if I were talking to a wall. Going back to New York is nothing special. Because my world here has become so small, I feel like going back to a place where I can express myself more easily, where I can communicate with people more easily, and feel my artistic expression more tangibly communicated.

[Narrator] And they bury themselves in everyday life once again.

[Text on screen]
GREATER LONDON COUNCIL
No. 4. has been passed by the Greater London Council for exhibition in Greater London when no child under 16 is present.

X LONDON

Yoko Ono Productions Presents

No. 4.

by Yoko Ono

– [Man 1 talking] …no, because I don’t think you could sum it up in one press release.
– [Man 2] Well, right, I’ll just sort of explain briefly for everybody here: we’re making a film, a ninety-minute film, feature-length production, 365 people. We’re shooting each person for twenty seconds while he’s walking. And we’re shooting him from the behind. So in fact, what you’ll see on the screen when you go to see the film will be 365 people walking one after the other with a very close tight shot, actually about this big, no hips will be showing or anything. Just imagine the screen as a, divided into four equal areas. A horizontal line for the bottom of the buttocks, and a vertical line for the crack between the cheeks and the legs, and these four areas are moving in an abstract pattern.
– [Man 1] And these are unclothed, of course.
– [Man 2] And these are unclothed. Just one after the other. Twenty seconds each, for an hour and a half. The soundtrack’s being made right now by this gentleman here, and it will be a documentary of what actually took place here while we were shooting this film. And that’s it.

– [Woman] If I was a well-known actress and I had quite a name, then I wouldn’t mind doing it at all, but I think, um, as I’m not, then I’m always getting asked to take my clothes off for films and things like this, and I mean I refused even when it’s sort of something really good, you know. So really I don’t, I don’t want to just take my clothes off just for, well, just for…

– [Man 1] Sounds to me the only trouble is it might be boring. Because, uh, when people, I think you won’t really get interesting cinema on this level until you can photograph people from the front instead of from behind, you know, for a start.
– [Man 2] That’s interesting. Have you… Did you know the content of the film before you came here?
– [Woman] No, I didn’t.
– Do you know it yet?
– Pardon?
– Do you know what the film’s about yet?
– No, yes.
– Yes, now you know. Are you participating or have you participated?
– No, I won’t. Not that I’m against it, mind. I think this is very artistic. But I think maybe there’s better people than I could do it.
– Why do you say this?
– Oh, well, I don’t know. You know your vocation.
– Pardon?
– I mean, I just decided against it, that’s all. As I say, I have nothing against this artistic…
– But you personally prefer not to participate.
– I’d go and see it, but I wouldn’t participate.

– [Man] I mean, an actor has a special quality where he’s able to use his experience in life in order to become an actor.
– [Yoko Ono] So maybe an actor might consider this as an interesting experience to add to his career. Some actors do, actually.
– Yeah, OK, fair enough. But why put in the Stage “actors wanted” when you’re going to use everybody? Why not just sort of put “anybody welcome”?
– [Woman] Because she was advertising in a theatrical paper, so she’s not going to…
– [Ono] Right, right.

– [Man 1] This is a dressing room in here. Yeah. And here we have… This is a turntable that you’ll be walking on. If you could just stand right there and watch, I’ll give you a demonstration of how it works. Now, what you’ll do is you can see, you can walk on this turntable just like this.
– [Man 2] Yeah.

– [Man] If you’re going to say, for example, in a theatrical newspaper, you do have in stage, the same one you advertise, they say, “actors between jobs wanted to move pianos.” So the actor knows that what he’s wanted to do is to move a piano, not to be an actor.
– [Ono] But you see, this is actually filming. And the thing is that we’re saying that, in fact, you’re performing in a film and you’re going to get a credit for it, you know?
– A credit for what, though?

– [Man 1] Without actually holding on at all. So you just hold on very lightly up here. And then you just walk like this.
– [Man 2] OK.
– Very, very easily. OK? Don’t put any weight on this front part. Don’t lean on it. Just…
– No.
– Hold it lightly like that. Just in case. And yourself in position.
– Yeah.
– OK?
– OK.

– [Man 1] A credit is only when your name is being put down because you’ve done something that you’re proud of.
– [Woman 1] Well, you have.
– [Woman 2] Well, if you did it, you would be proud of it, wouldn’t you?
– [Man 2] Quiet.
– [Man 1] No, not necessarily. Just being a human being like every other?
– [Woman 2] Well, this gentleman’s done it and he’s very…
– [Woman 1] You’re quite proud of having done it, aren’t you?
– [Man 3] Yeah, as I said before, I mean, I don’t… I don’t…

– [Man 1] All right, if you could remove your jacket.
– [Man 2] Yeah.
– And strip from the waist down.
– Yeah.
– And remove your shoes.
– OK.
– OK, now watch your step.
– Yeah.
– Right? Now just start… Walking very slowly at first till you get the hang of the thing.

– [Man] Yes, I certainly feel this way because you see, no two people walk alike. It’s like the fingerprint of the individual. And you have maybe a hundred or a thousand people coming to see a film like this. Each person who is sitting in the auditorium and looking at the film would see something different.

– [Woman] Oh, I wouldn’t say that. I would say that… In relation to one’s normal walk that… Wow, you know. Choong! I walk, I don’t go anywhere. I talk, I don’t say anything. You know, it all… It all starts moving for you from there. And then just the feel of it itself. And then you’re telling me about people wanting to walk on flowers and on dough and things. You know…

– [Man] You can speed up a little bit. That’s good. Just about like that is fine. OK? Now, the thing is this, that you’re on a slight angle. So I want you to bring your left shoulder in a little bit towards that front bar. That’s too much. Like, that’s perfect. OK?

– [Man] Well, I knew what the scene was when we got here, what the scene was going to be. But I had no idea there was going to be this groovy walk-around machine to go on. I thought I could have gone on for hours. It’s beautiful. Just padding along with your backside. It’s beautiful.

– [Man] Have you had a chance to read the press release?
– [Woman] No, I haven’t.
– OK. Could you please read the press release carefully? And then I’ll answer any questions that you have about it.
– From the beginning?
– Yeah, read it from the beginning. Read it straight through. And then I’ll come back to you in a second. OK?
– “The shooting began last Saturday on Yoko’s latest film, No. 4. The filming is being done in a London studio in the greatest secrecy. Miss Ono, a Japanese avant-garde artist, composer, explained that the film would be her first feature length production, and said that the subject matter would previously overlooked means for expanding consciousness. The footage consists of even, twenty-second shots of various subjects—celebrities, artists, actors and actresses, pop personalities, and otherwise people from all walks of life.

– [Woman] I don’t like the idea of it. I personally don’t think I would enjoy watching the film. I don’t like the idea of it. I think that it’s a statement of the obvious.

– [Man] Oh, yeah, but this is a, this is such a generalization that it becomes grotesque: “Everything is worthwhile.” Then a person can spend his whole life doing anything for twenty-four hours a day and saying that it’s worthwhile. Life is as short as sixty or seventy years and the way that some people do things is more worthwhile than other people. And the thing is to edit your time and edit your life to do the things that are the most valuable for you, not that—

– [Man 1] You’re angling off to the right again. OK, good. That’s good. Just like that. Very good. OK, just keep walking like that until you get the hang of it. Do you think you have it right now?
– [Man 2] Yeah.
– If you stand up perfectly straight, just stay relaxed, the thing won’t run away from you.

– [Woman] Well, I wasn’t sure whether I should, you know, go in there and take my pants off and expose my behind, but I said, oh, there’s nothing wrong with exposing your behind, so I went in. And when I got up on the stage, well, I was conscious at first, you know, and then gradually I just kept concentrating and walking at an even pace and forgot, you know, I had no pants on.

– [Man] How old are you, Miss Prendergast?
– [Prendergast] 23.
– I assume that you’re single.
– Single.
– I see.
– And you’ve just taken part in this film. Would you tell us what you had to do?
– Stand on a platform that runs on ball bearings so that you can walk forward while staying in the same place. It was very tricky. The thing runs away with you.
– I see. And what did you do… What did you do… I beg your pardon. What did you do then?
– Nothing. You just… When you’ve got the sort of hang of it so that you don’t stagger and lurch and weave from side to side, then he films for a few moments and that’s it.
– I see. He is filming… Actually filming your backside.
– Yes.
– I see. You don’t remove your clothes, I assume.
– Well… Well, yes, either you remove them or hang them around your neck. I found it easier to remove them.
– Oh, you remove them. I see. Entirely, is it?
– Oh, I left my bra on. That didn’t show, but my dress is thick. I didn’t want to roll it around my neck.
– I see.
– You have no feelings about exposing your body in the sense…
– No, I… I have… Mind much less when I did remove my clothes than I would have minded if I’d sort of hitched my dress up.
– I see.
– When I first read it, I thought, ah, no thank you. And then I thought, no, I can’t very well turn around and walk out the door, you know? But, in fact, it was nothing… You know, nothing embarrassing about it really at all. It was rather fun when I got used to that horrible platform.

– [Man 1] You see what I mean?
– [Man 2] Yes.
– If you lean forward, it will speed up, and then it actually is a little bit dangerous. You just keep walking while I set my shot up. OK, good. How’s that?

– [Man] It’s nothing to do with being an actor. Nothing to do with being an actor, because a garbage man could do it as well, a potato picker could do it as well, and a striptease dancer could probably do it much better.
– [Woman] Yes, but they want some… They don’t just want actors. They want people from all walks of life.
– How is an actor’s ass different from anyone else’s ass?
– It isn’t. They’ve got other sorts of people doing it as well.
– That’s right, so you don’t have to be an actor.

– [Woman] Just imagining that sort of thing. And singing, too, was very nice, to sort of sing with the movement of the thing going round, to make a sound that goes round and round, too.

– [Woman] I don’t think it needs explaining, no. I mean, I understand, I think, even if only partly and even if only in my own way, but it makes perfect sense to me, you know. And… Hi.
– [Man 1] You think you got it now?
– [Man 2] Yeah, I think so.
– OK, can you just stop for a minute and now tuck your shirt up around your waist so that it won’t fall down while we’re making the shot. Better do it around the front, too. Maybe tie it in the front or something.

– [Man] Well, I only found out that they were going to be filming your buttocks, you know, that your buttocks don’t change its expression, which is unlike your face. It sort of changes its expression according to mood and desire, where your buttocks just sort of stays one way.

– [Man 1] But being in the older generation…
– [Man 2] I might be in the older generation, it doesn’t mean I’m an old degenerate. If you take over one of the little clubs I know in Berwick Street, you’d make a fortune selling this film, I can tell you. But you’ll have an all-male clientele.

– [Woman] You know, if that’s where you want to focus, and that’s where you want to know about people from, that makes sense to me, you know. I think you can do it from anything: from hands, from eyes, from noses, from any part of the body. And I think, you know, focusing anywhere has this potential of showing about people and just being pleasing forms and different. Yeah.

– [Woman] …asses, is that true?
– [Man] What?
– You’re just taking pictures of asses. Is that the whole bit?
– Well, I’m afraid that’s what it amounts to…
– Is that what the whole film is?
– Yes, that’s what it is.
– I don’t know if I’d want to watch that.

– [Man] I’m open-minded about it. I find that people try to feel ashamed to show their posterior. I mean, you know, they feel humiliated if, for instance, their trousers might drop off in the road. That’s an embarrassing moment for them, which I don’t think… it shouldn’t be an embarrassing moment. I mean, if you’re wearing a hat and your hat blew off, you would feel embarrassed, would you?

– [Man] Good. That’s good. All right, why don’t you start walking again. Don’t forget about keeping your left shoulder in like that. That’s very good. You’re over to the left. You’re into the left a little bit too much now. That’s fine. Just like that.

– [Woman] You know, I often walk barefooted. You know, I think if you walked on that thing for a few hours, you’d get lifted quite high. Because it doesn’t make you dizzy. It’s not that kind of thing at all. But I have felt walking like that sort of when I’m on the tail end of a trip. I’ve gone out for a walk. It’s the same kind of feeling.

– [Man] OK. Now come over to your left a little bit. Over to your left. To your left. A little bit more. That’s too much. Just like that’s perfect. OK. Just keep it up. Just like that. Exactly. Now don’t change position. Just keep walking. OK?

– [Man 1] Well, we like to cooperate always, but probably not in this spot.
– [Man 2] Not in this particular film. May I ask why?
– [Woman] I mean, maybe we don’t know exactly what it’s all about.
– [Man 1] Maybe. Maybe indeed we don’t know exactly what it’s all about.
– [Man 2] You know, that’s another point you’re saying.
– Why don’t you tell us, then?
– All right.
– And where we can fit in. When you think we fit somewhere, tell us where we can fit, and then we maybe can do it.
– Do you know what the film is, you don’t know what the film is about at all?
– [Woman] No, I don’t.
– [Man 1] Very vaguely.
– [Man 2] It’s bare behinds walking one after the other.
– And that’s all?
– That’s all.
– But there are probably in the very near future other ideas and plans where we could…

– [Man] OK. Here we are. We’re going to shoot you now, so just keep walking. Nice, even, steady walk. Just like you’re doing. That’s fine. Be careful not to drift from side to side. You can bring your right shoulder in, your left shoulder in just a little teeny, weeny bit. That’s good. Just like that. Now keep walking just like that. That’s good. Bring your left shoulder and just a teeny, weeny, weeny bit again. That’s good. Keep right on walking. Very, very, very good. Thank you very much. OK, watch your step getting off the platform, please. Watch your step getting off the platform.

– [Man 1] Um, how did I feel? Well, I just felt nothing really. I mean, I just was concentrating very hard. Um, I was just concentrating very hard to make sure that my left shoulder didn’t move where I was told it wasn’t supposed to move, quite frankly. The thing was to stand up straight. Didn’t feel anything out of the ordinary really.
– [Man 2] Feel what?
– Didn’t feel anything out of the ordinary.

– [Man] …degenerate into just sheer boredom of the audience. If it’s going to go on for this length… This hard to say. I mean, the audience participation will come in after the first few minutes because with both embarrassment and nudging and various other innuendos and things. Um, then seeing the same scene without any variation at all, the same shot time and time again.

– [Man] Um, well, I’m a little disappointed that it’s, uh… it’s going to be so repetitive. I was expecting a slightly bigger production and various sets. I just can’t see how I can, uh… keep the audience attention for an hour and a half. It, uh…apart from the, uh… opinion of the various actors who are participating in this film, to me it is, uh…the shooting is going to be so similar. I just don’t see how we’re going to be able to hold the audience’s attention for such a long time.

– [Man 1] There’s one film I saw by a young guy that consisted of nothing except a fellow masturbating on his back for about 20 minutes in close-up. And this went on and on, and people started to boo and hiss. And the guy was very annoyed. He was sort of stomping around to the back and trying to, uh, say, you know… and going up to people in the audience and telling them why they didn’t take it seriously and this kind of thing. He was furious.
– [Man 2] It was hilarious because the funniest thing was that, uh, nothing happened at all. And one of the world was like, what’s the matter with him? And there he is, sort of carrying on. He can’t make it. It was hilariously funny. And it wasn’t intended to be at all. He miscalculated absolutely.

– [Man] Ah, that’s a different proposition. If it’s a happening or if it’s just happening, then it’s not preconceived. But I was presented this newspaper when I walked through. I was given this newspaper to read. Now, I’ve protested for the last 15 years about things and I’ve had anything happen to me because of it. I’m at this particular period in my life when I don’t feel that I’m protesting against anything. There’s nothing to protest because they’ve won. They’ve literally won. You know, whatever you want to protest against, they’ve won.

– [Man] I personally wouldn’t go and see it. As I said before, I mean, it’s great to say that I’ve had my backside photographed, you know, but I don’t think it’s Yoko or Yona, whatever her name is, said that she thinks the backside is beautiful. Well, I mean, the backside to me doesn’t do a thing to me personally. I’d probably go and see it if I was invited to see it. But I just imagine the kind of audience who would say, well, get in the beginning anyway, would be just the kinks, you know. I mean, it’s like these 10-ball-per-time cinemas. They go in expecting far more than they actually get, you know. And it wouldn’t appeal to me personally, no. I mean, I can’t quite… I’m not quite with her, what she’s trying to get over.

– [Man] Like most photographers and journalists, you know, you’re sort of brainwashed. Not so much brainwashed, but you’re hardened to everything. And whatever happens, nothing surprises you. It’s sort of super cynicism, I suppose. Nothing surprises you. And it just didn’t occur to me. You know, I never said, like, to Tina here, “What a bloody silly thing to be doing, you know, shooting bums all day long.” And on the other hand, I never said, “What a marvellous arsey thing.” You know, OK, so somebody’s shooting a movie of a bunch of tails, and that’s all it was, you know.

– [Man] So if you make… If all these people are making a statement where they expose their behinds in a film, they’re…
– [Ono] In fact, they’re showing their faith to the world.
– They’re showing faith to the world, you see.
– It’s the most defenseless part of your body. You know, they said, well, “Why don’t you take the front instead of the behind? You know, front is more interesting.” But front is at least something that’s positive, that you can… It’s like a tool that you can use to do all sorts of things, maybe, you know. But the behind is like there. It’s so defenseless. And people like to, you know… It’s embarrassing to show the most defenseless part of your body.
– Well, yeah, I’ve never thought of it, but I suppose you can’t really do much about it. You’re stuck with it, aren’t you?
– [Woman] No, no, no, no. No, no, no. I’ve been walking on it and singing on it and enjoying it. It was all great, you know. But nobody ever told me that little detail, you know. I mean, you know, it has so many other connotations. And the more you walk, the more they come. You know, you’re not just walking at all.

– [Woman] That you can do so many interesting things in avant-garde, more with filming than with theatre, because you have many more means at your disposal in many ways. And, of course, I would love to work for this film because I want to make a career, and for me, making a career is more important than money. So I’d rather do something that’s fascinating.
– [Man] Do you know what this film is about?
– I don’t know anything, but I’m just very curious to know more about it.
– Oh, I see.
– I know that it’s avant-garde, I’ve heard about that, but I’m very ignorant about the whole thing.
– Yes.
– And for me, the main thing is to have an opportunity to do some acting and to work with…

– [Man] What you’re, in fact, doing, is you’re presenting a document with the magic, magical properties of people’s presence as opposed to just having a piece of paper, which doesn’t live, actually. This is just what I formed very rapidly and what I heard, you know.

– [Ono] I consider this whole thing as a film event, you know. And films were never an event, you see. In any other field, music or painting or any other field, people are starting to have this audience participation bit and everything, but not in the film world. Even Jean-Luc Godard or Antonioni or Polanski or anything, you know, you go and see it. It’s an aristocratic thing, exclusive art form, you know.

– [Woman 1] It’s a sort of virginal prize where you start off wrapped up like a Christmas cake and then sort of disclose yourself to the world.
– [Woman 2] I mean, not really, because the thing is, as you said about the film, you’re just showing your buttocks.
– Yes, but surely if all it does is show your buttocks, then this is important. If you’ve got 300 people to take my trousers off, this is fantastic.
– Yes, I know.
– People have built in prejudice.
– Yes, I know.

– [Man] We do that in the music thing. You carry on on one riff for ages and ages until you get over the barrier of boredom and monotony and you recreate a new beauty, you know.
– [Woman 1] Surely there’s no sort of personal, really personal, except that you’re showing your face, a face which is really a false front anyway.
– [Woman 2] Yes, but you may be showing your face, but you’ve got to have something coming from inside to portray this person. Yes, well, then couldn’t you just stand on a platform and show your buttocks and therefore, you know…
– No, because this is not me. I’m not portraying nothing. I’m just standing here as far as I’m concerned.
– But you are.
– I’m standing here just to show my bottom.
– This is the most vulnerable part of you.
– But to me, to me, this is nothing. This isn’t art to me. Just to stand here and portray my bottom. If somebody said to me, would you do something and really fetch it over? Yes, I would do this because I’ve got something to come out, to fetch out.
– But you’re walking. Surely if you just showed your face anyway, you’d be only showing what the people expect of you, what they expect, their particular image of yourself, or you’re just projecting your, sort of, your own subjective image of yourself. But in showing your buttocks, you can’t project anything because they’re just there. And…
– Well, this is why I say, you know, just to project or to show your buttocks, you know, there’s nothing there. You’re not… How can I say it? It’s very difficult to explain. You know, you’re just standing there to have a film taken of it, whereas if…

– [Man] Oh, we don’t go quite that long. But first, I think the hardest thing to do is to play on one chord, to actually improvise on one chord all the time. It sounds…

– [Man] Oh, well, it was a light laugh, really, because… The nearer you stood to the middle, the easier it was to walk around it. Yeah, I’d be happier if they were doing something like grinding flour with it, you know, instead of making films with it. I’d have felt that would have been real social, kind of, you know, that would have meant something more.

– [Man] It’s not so much a question of making it as a person, it’s more a question of just being able to communicate. The desire to communicate is very strong. And you have this possibility to communicate on a vast level instead of in small, self-conscious poetic circles with gentlemen reading poetry out of dry books with dry throats, glasses of water.

– [Woman 1] It isn’t exactly like that, because actually when you’re walking, when you’re walking and this platform is revolving, you do feel very personally involved. I can sort of tell you this. Well, from my own point of view, anyway.
– [Woman 2] Yes, but you see, everybody’s got different personalities, you see.
– A very sort of personal involvement, because the rhythmic moving of walking, it’s sort of like a continual orgasm, almost. Once you start walking, you can feel this thing moving through you, and it’s just sort of one long continuation.

– [Woman 1] Do you do film and television? Have you ever done it?
– [Woman 2] Yes, because I’m American. I’m Anglo-British. Well, Anglo-American, sorry. And I didn’t know what was going on here, you know, when I came in. And…
– [Man 1] You came in…
– With Michael. But I didn’t know as much as Michael knew about it. And because of my profession, I, of course, balked at it at first, because I can’t have bad publicity. I’m a model.
– [Man 2] This is very anti-art, which is nice.
– [Woman 2] Well, I’m not anti-art.
– No, no. I’m not saying that. You’re a little bit pro-art.
– I’m definitely pro-art. But… And some people, they’re very beautiful. Some people have very beautiful asses. I know it’s one of the first things I look at. There will probably be many more ugly ones than beautiful ones. It’s far more likely. Now, I sort of… I’m a bit cynical about mine, because it’s worth money. They say every girl’s sitting on a fortune if only she’d realize it. And I’ve begun to realize it.

– [Man 1] Will there be any colour bar?
– [Man 2] Oh, no, this is…
– We need some nice spade asses. Just occasionally a nice black ass will be a beautiful contrast.

– [Man] Good thing to a point where they won’t be afraid to do it anymore. You know, that’s all it amounts to. It’s just… It’s crazy, the whole thing. But there’s always, you know, some good in it, even though it does kind of get watered down. And sometimes it doesn’t succeed at all. But it’s the thing that doesn’t succeed, you know, the work itself. Not you.

– [Woman] I just… I don’t know, it’s very hard to put my objections into words. Really. Um… I think it’s a bit smarty. Just a bit smarty. Um…

– [Man] …explain that by saying that an art form is successful if it works within a context that it seeks to destroy. And I think that’s what we’re doing here. Whether or not we thought about it that way when we started out. This is what actually… What has in fact happened to all art all through history. It’s always destroyed itself.

– [Man 1] Um, quite possibly. Possibly. A percentage of people. I mean, perhaps the percentage of people is those who are making a film anyway. The percentage that it might change the people who are making a film anyway. So… I don’t know whether it’d do anything. I don’t think it matters whether it does anything or not. I don’t think it matters whether it does anything or not. Really.
– [Man 2] Why? Well, it’s… You know, there’s no point in trying to change it at all or anything. It could go on for days, but… You know, I don’t think there is any point in trying to change it. So…

– [Woman] Now, the question is, would you go and see this film?
– [Man] Yes, I would, because…
– I mean, if we were sitting at home on a weeknight and Yoko’s film were playing somewhere and we had our choice between something like, um, Juliet of the Spirits and this film.
– It depends on a certain number of things. But basically, uh, yes.

– [Man] What you’re trying to say is that people have changed over the centuries and they haven’t. They’ve always been born and they’ve always gone through a period of organic, you know, progression. That they’ve been 12 and then they’ve been 15 and they’ve gone into puberty and all this. Uh, but art is quite different from that in art.
– [Woman] Sure. No, that’s not what I’m talking about.

– [Woman] No, I’m not in the film. I’m taking stills for the film. But I’m not… My ass is not in this film. You know.
– [Man] Why?
– Because I’m not on the same wavelength. I’m not in on this thing, you know. Like, I like Yoko’s work, most of her work, but not this. This thing just doesn’t go far enough, you know. It bores me. It doesn’t interest me.

– [Woman] My question is, is it valid? Is it valid?
– [Man] Well, that’s the big question and you can’t tell in 1967 the worth of a film made in 1967. You’ve got to wait 20, 30, 40, 50 years.

– [Woman] There’s more to be explored than that, you know. That’s just another… See, I don’t think she’s gotten involved enough. I mean, that’s just a surface thing. I just don’t think it’s enough. I mean, it’s going to be very beautiful. Physically, it’s going to be a nice film. That’s what I hope. And I like ugliness, I guess. A bit of ugliness. I like a little…

– [Man] Possibilities because it can be held up as an example of Western decadence by certain people. You can see that right now. And… Oh, yeah. It certainly has unique possibilities.

– [Woman] Go on, Bob.
– [Man] I think there’s a good chance that the film that’s being made now will be the most boring film so far made which is completely full of movement. I mean, you can take a boring film of a man sleeping for nine hours but then this is stationary. This will all have movement in it. And I think that this is important. I think there are many times early in the morning when one wants some sort of soporific, continual movement. A nice thing would be to have the whole audience for this film floating in blood-warm water and subject them to sensory deprivation at the same time as they’re watching it and see what happens.

– [Woman] Now, I think they ought to be sitting on incredibly hard seats that slowly get hotter as the film progresses.
– [Man] Hot?
– Hotter. The seats get hotter. So you become conscious of your own ass.

– [Man] How many people will take their trousers off during the film?

– [Woman] The film itself is a big bloody bore. It’s a drag. I mean, I don’t know. There’s just so much more to do than this. Maybe I’m just not in the same wavelength as Yoko. I like all her other work. I like all her musical things. I mean… Yeah. I didn’t do anything.
– [Man] But don’t you think the bare backside of bare asses is sort of unexplored?
– Oh, I don’t know. Mine’s been explored. I mean, I’m very free about all that. I mean, that’s great, but to me it’s so boring. You know… Yeah. You know.

– [Woman] I don’t really know anything about it. I was given this address by… this phone number by my husband. I don’t know what you’re doing. I just… But I’m not doing anything either. I thought there might be something interesting. You know?

– [Man] Yes, let’s put it this way. Suppose I came in and I thought to myself, they’re kidding, you know, the whole thing is a fraud. It’s a send-up. All right, so? So I stand there with my pants off and I walk up and down for a few minutes. I’ve lost nothing. The female might be thinking, gee, I don’t know, maybe they’re just gonna laugh at me and show their films, you know, and just sit there laughing hilariously.

– [Man] Well, as far as I can see, the basic idea is to, is to reduce people who all have their own ideas about themselves, probably, you know, and illusions, reduce them all to one level, which in itself is a very… Yes, which I think is a good idea. It does take… As you say, I suppose it’s humorous.

– [Woman] So… I mean, even if we would get in or something, it’s… Well, everyone can have auditions. Well, the whole set-up is so terrible, really. And the awful thing, I mean, we both went to an… Well, Sam went yesterday, I went to an interview… No, Sam went today, I went to an interview yesterday with this man. That was something that we read in the stage, and he was looking for juvenile girls. And he’s doing three comedies. And he told us something, he told me something about them, and it’s really the sort of play that, well, anyone in their right minds wouldn’t want to do, you know? And you’re doing this for something like five months, really bad comedy. But the point is, is that perhaps that’s the only job you can get, and you’ve just got to do it. And, you know, it sort of drives you mad.

– [Man] No, man, I’m… I mean, I’m… I’m not ashamed about my ass. But, you know, I don’t feel like going… Doing this, that’s all. Are you in the film?

– [Man] I saw the rushes, and I saw, you know, I saw my ass, ‘cos I knew which one it was. It looked good, it was nice for me to see it. Just because I’d never seen it before in motion, you know? It’s hard enough trying to see it in a mirror. Let alone seeing it in motion. I was pretty satisfied; I was pretty happy with it.

– [Man] Don’t make any special trips, don’t…
– [Ono] I’ll tell… explain to you about it first. He’s in Manchester, it’s not fair.
– Hello? You’re in Manchester? Oh, well, look, um… Do you know anything about this film? It’s been broadcast on the BBC. It was broadcast on the Today Show twice, on the BBC.
– [TV announcer] The associate delegate took up the theme and enlightened… on Today, called Yoko Ono. She’s making, to say the least, a rather unusual film. It’ll deal with what I can only describe as an artistically rather neglected feature of the anatomy: the bottom. And a very curious Corbett Woodall asked Miss Ono about her film.
– [Woodall] Why the bottom? Because I suspect that you’re not trying to be funny.
– [Ono] Well, I’m not trying to be funny at all. I’m dead serious. And I think after seeing this film, people will see that the bottom is not exactly just material for jokes and laughter. But it’s something that’s very beautiful and just as beautiful as any other part of the body.
– It seems to me that the bottom is about the most featureless part of anyone’s anatomy. Does this matter to you?
– No, on the contrary. I don’t think it’s featureless at all. The face that usually is considered most interesting in a part of the body, in fact, the expression that the face makes, you can control the expression. And therefore it becomes intentional and hypocritical and stereotyped. Whereas the expression that is shown in the bottom is something that you can’t control. And therefore it’s very beautiful and naive.
– Let’s come to the film itself, Yoko. You’ve assembled 365 bottoms. You’re going to show… How?
– Well, 365 bottoms, 15 seconds each, each one just moving and walking away nude.
– Well, you are clear that the subject matter of your film is going to provide “a previously overlooked means for expanding consciousness.” Do explain this to me.
– Well, right now, as you say, bottom is something special to people, that they don’t really like to discuss it so much in public and so forth. And it is becoming a shady subject or a matter of a joke or something. But after seeing this film, I can see that probably people will feel it differently. They would see that you can see it from a different angle.
– Now, a lot of travel is involved, I understand. Bottoms are to be shot in Paris, Tokyo, and New York. Are you going to derive a different sort of personality from a French or American or a Japanese backside?
– No, it’s not that kind of attempt at all. I think it’s just very beautiful to take more bottoms as possible.
– [TV announcer] But I must say, I’ve always rather liked Corbett’s expression on TV. I hope this isn’t going to make him change it. Well, after we played that tape yesterday, I suggested to people who fancied that chance of stardom where to pop along and see Miss Yoko Ono. Well, Corbett Woodall went along once more and mingled with the would-be stars.
– [Woodall] Now, you’re here to be filmed. What do you reckon is so unique about your backside?
– [Man 1] Well, I have 30 years’ experience in repertory and touring and plays and so on, Shakespeare. And I’ve done amateur films. I want to get some experience of professional films.
– Now that you know what the film is about, do you think you’re a suitable candidate for it?
– [Woman] Yes, well, as much as anybody is.
– [Woodall] Have you any other thoughts about why the film was made?
– I think it’s interesting from the point of view of the way people differ.
– And you, what do you think about it?
– [Man 2] I like the idea.
– Why?
– It’s interesting. It’s different.
– What is so sensational about your behind?
– [Man 3] I don’t know, I’ve never really studied it.
– You think that by committing it to posterity you’ll be doing the world a great favor?
– Oh, yes, definitely.
– [TV announcer] Now, it’s something very different, and do listen to this.

– [Man 1] Oh, am I drunk after lunch. I’d rather have… Anyone want a drink, yeah?
– [Man 2] Not my first one.
– Yeah, all right.

– [Man] It’s a complicated question you’re asking me because you’re asking it… Because what you’re asking me, you’re asking me two questions there. You’re asking me what do I think of the ideas that Yoko Ono projects and you’re also asking me what I think of the medium of film. In those terms. They’re two long questions and they take more than your tape to answer.

– [Woman] Well, I sort of… I’m interested in the idea of an organic shape being repeated in a landscape and it seems to me that a bottom is very much relevant to the sort of repetitive idea in hills or mountains and things. And I just find this interesting and I notice in a sculpture today that they have a direct… A direct… What’s the word I’m thinking of?
– [Man] A relationship?
– Well, yes, relationship.

– [Man] She said to me earlier, while I was talking to her, she said—I think you were there too—she said that people tend to think the backside, “ick.” But she sees the backside as beautiful.
– [Woman] Oh, I agree with her. I think people’s backsides are attractive.
– You know, so therefore she’s probably trying to put out… Like Walt Disney puts out Bambi, she’s putting out backsides for their beautifulness or something.

– [Woman] But I suppose it’s just how… I’m, you know, thinking of the point of it. I see the point of it.

– [Man 1] I don’t think… Ah, I don’t…
– [Man 2] The backside in movement, I should say, which this…
– Sure, it must be related in the same way as any kinetic movement’s related in painterly terms, for instance. Like it’s part of gesture, and like body is related to it. Like Pollock moves his arm in a certain way, it’s his handwriting, and therefore we recognize Pollock through it.

– [Man] To a large extent, those people who are interested to see what… Who have, you know, an inquisitive nature and those who don’t. And I think it could be, especially as I trained as a painter anyway, you know, arses have different characteristics, and those are the… and they’re genetically and environmentally related to the people who they belong to. For me, you know. If they’re visually orientated, what do they think their own arse expresses, or what part of their character, or is it a total part of their character? Or… What is the relevance of their own arse? Maybe.

– [Man] Well, it’s something, you know, I mean, it’s a very basic organ to begin with. That’s the first part of relevance. It’s a… Probably a point from which energy springs throughout the body, physically, you know. And then I suppose where you put it and how you use it is another definition of character. Whether it’s just something that keeps your head off the floor, or whether it’s something that you… like poking into the sand, or whatever you like to do with it, you know.

– [Man 1] I’d like to see what kids would think about this, or hear what kids would think about this.
– [Man 2] When you say kids, what age?
– Any age, you know. Take them from when they can talk, say, you know. Because I think children… They must… Say, from the ages, say, from five to nine or ten, wouldn’t be that much embarrassed. They’d be rather enthralled by it all, I should think, you know. And they would notice differences, yeah. Let’s face it. After the first, what, ten arses, people are not going to look at naked arses. They’re going to look at the differences, or whatever they’re going to look at. Because I think everybody’s going to sit there and compare different things, aren’t they? You get some people who are going to compare, you know, different anatomical structures, and you get somebody who’s going to compare different movements. Very observant. It’s a note. Whether you’re filming a fat person or a thin person.
– Or a child.
– Or a child. Or an old person or a young person. You know, I don’t know about color of skin, you know. It’s different, maybe. But it’s quite an interesting point. I quite like… It’d be quite nice to interview people when they’re watching. And stop a film, stop it, and then say, oh, what do you think that person is? Or, in many cases, is that a girl or a boy?
– What’s the ratio of men to women?
– It’s one of the most vulnerable points of the body. Yeah. You can’t see it unless you, you know… You sit on things, you know, you sit on it. And you sit on pins, you can sit on anything. I think if people think their arse is showing, they feel very vulnerable. Isn’t it odd? Well, that’s what I feel. You know, I don’t care if anybody sees my belly or my neck or my back. But your arse? You know… I don’t care if anybody sees the front of me, you know, but it’s funny, isn’t it? It feels like, you know, like sticking your arse out of the window of a train, you know. You know, you can… If you were sticking your head out, you’d be twice as far out, you know. That’s a joke, baby.

– [Man 1] I direct in ITV. I felt terribly relaxed, actually. It was a super experience. This was the best part of it. Because the odd thing is that when you walk on the pavements, normally, you know, you don’t… At least I don’t really… Well, I didn’t think I did. I didn’t relax. But that’s a super feeling. And I felt… I felt quite bad when 20 seconds was up, because I felt like I’d just gone and done it. Doing it, you know? Yeah, I felt that it was super. Because at first it seems… You know, it’s terribly hard. But afterwards, I think it’s great. After you get used to it, it’s a super feeling actually. I think if I had a platform, I’d be on it for hours, you know? I believe that.
– [Man 2] It’d be nice though, in one’s living room. That’d be…
– I’d be super to have one. It’d be super to have one. See, it’s just a super relaxed feeling.

– [Man] I didn’t mind. Yeah, well, I didn’t see any, you know, I think it’s rather stupid to mind. I mean, I just, well, I can’t quite understand people that do. I mean, I can sort of intellectually understand, but I can’t understand how they feel, you know what I mean? I can see their reasons. I think they’re pretty bum reasons. I made a pun, bum reasons. No, I think, you know, I felt, well, I didn’t feel anything. I just took off my pants. Well, but you know, why should one feel anything? You know, it doesn’t mean anything to me. I’ve got a feeling that I would go through a patch of boredom, but I would sit this through, because I think that for many people it’s necessary to go through the patch of boredom, and then I think it might mean something. Exactly what? I don’t know. I’m waiting to see. But, you know, it’s the, the constant repetitive image, but repetitive with slight variations.

– [Man] Ah, well, to be quite honest, I think that would depend totally on when I’d seen it. Yeah, because I think, I think it’s very hard to, to put sound to it until… because I’ve just said, I don’t know what the corporate effect will be. And I think I would only put sound to it when I found myself what the corporate effect was. In fact, what are you going to put on it?

– [Woman] Oh, yes, you just look on your TV show and you see modern dancing all the time. They do nothing else but modern dancing. I mean, modern ballet, you know. But to, to do modern ballet properly, you’ve had to have a classical ballet background, because there’s, you’ve got to be pretty loose in the body, and you’ve got to have a good balance. So, therefore, a good classical background of ballet is very important to modern dancing. But then, when you have that, when you have experience, where you can do, you do modern dancing perfectly, you know.

– [Man 1] Because I don’t want the background, you know, to my arse, to be sort of people stripping to the sound of a motorbike being started up. I’m absolutely fed up with all that sort of New York thing, you know, I really am.
– [Man 2] No, they’re not going to have that.
– Oh, I’m… I think it’s so marvelous, Rex plays W1, no nonsense, it’s marvelous.
– [Man 3] Answer that telephone, please, at once. Let’s just get a cigarette, do you mind?

– [Man] It is. It’s a, it’s a, it does take, as you say, I suppose it’s humorous in that it does remove illusion completely from human being, you know, the body and what goes on in the mind, you know, you just have this body on the screen. You don’t have all these built up illusions inside operating at all. And that can be taken seriously or humorously as far, according to how you take yourself. This is, I think, a person in the audience is going to react as he takes himself. You see what I mean?

– [Ono]. The poem reads: [Speaking in Japanese]. And that means, the direct translation is: “The moon at the window that was left behind by the thief.” You know?
– [Man] Mm, yes.
– You see? Now, he translated, the thief left it behind. The thief left it behind. The moon at the window.
– Yes, yes.
– Now, there’s a big difference, you see.
– Oh, he, he, he makes it so cumbersome, clumsy. He actually makes it clumsy.
– He says, the thief left it behind, the moon at the window. It’s not that… The moon at the window, which was left behind by the thief. No, not which was it. The moon at the window was left behind.
– Yes.
– By the thief, you see.
– Yes. I would so much rather.
– Not “was,” even. The moon at the window left behind by the thief.

– [Man] I don’t think people are gonna sit for 90 minutes watching this, unless they’re sort of involved with the subject. And they’re very, unfortunately, there are very few people who get as far as, as thinking beyond the absurdity of, of the idea. You know what I mean? That there’s gonna be reactions. People are gonna say, how ridiculous to have this. And they’re not gonna think any further about it.

– [Man 1] Moon parade.
– [Man 2] Moon parade. See, in America, there’s a thing called mooning. What the people do is, they drop their drawers, and put their ass out of, put their bottoms, excuse me, out of the window, and say Fifth Avenue at two o’clock in the morning, you know?
– Right through Times Square.
– They go down about 60 miles an hour down Fifth Avenue.
– Right, pass a tourist bus.
– With their bottoms sticking out the window. You know, they sort of, they sort of moon Tiffany’s, and they moon, you know, like Saks Fifth Avenue, and Bendel’s.

– [Woman] Yes, but infants, but children do this. I mean, this is, this is.
– [Ono] Because children are trustworthy. Oh, no, no, I don’t think children do it for that reason. They do it when they want to really do something that they think is going to shock you and be naughty. Then they pull their pants down. And I think you’re all so terribly serious about this. It’s quite touching.
– [Man] Which people are the more ridiculous? Those who let their pants down, or those who go and see people taking their pants down?
– [Woman] Well, I think the way I would, I conceive of the film, I, I can imagine it being, if you were interested in, in really simply beautiful bodies. I think it would be a very, yes, graphically speaking, I think it would be, could be a very beautiful film and, and not be porno-, I mean, we’re not even, just obviously, this isn’t a pornographic film. But I, I…

– [Man 1] And look at, look at a bright light shining on a bottom, on a bare bottom. Look at the moon, the face of the moon, the contour and everything. And look at, listen to the word, moon.
– [Man 2] Moon.
– Moon. It’s such a good word for it. It means, it has something to do with the whole thing. Moon.
– It’s a pop symbol, man. It’s perfect total.
– Look, it’s the two O’s in the middle. And look at the two O’s in the middle and the dichotomy of the bottom. O, O, two round buttons.
– Moon. Moon. Moon.
– Moon. Moon. Moon.

– [Woman] Do you like taking your clothes off or do you like wearing your clothes? Which do you like?
– [Girl] I like wearing my clothes.

– [Man 1] A mooning protest cavalcade past the White House.
– [Man 2] Right.
– You know. I mean a caravan. With the C and D badge painted on it.
– Sure, man.
– Like, like, you know. We’ll go over and we’ll moon everybody. We’ll moon Johnson, and something like that. You know, in protest against the whole scene. Maybe 4,000 cars coming by at 80 miles an hour.
– Right.
– Right, right, right. And each, each, each window is like a frame in the film, you know, just whizzing by. So you get a continuous flow of moons.
– Maybe the audience will just all strip off, man, and moon at the picture. They’ll all rip their drawers off, man. They’re like, moon at the, moon at the, moon, moon at the marquee! Moon at the marquee, right. [Singing] Moon at the marquee… Moon.

– [Girl] Do you want my vest off?
– [Woman] Yeah, shall we take it off? Because it’s rather a nuisance.
– Want my vest off.
– And your vest off, yes. Shall we?
– I don’t want my vest off.
– All right, we’ll leave the vest on then.
– [Man] That’s good. Just like that.
– [Woman] That’s fine. Now walk. Can you walk towards me? That’s marvelous. That’s absolutely super.
– Thanks, John.
– That’s right. Keep going. Keep going.

– [Woman] It’s, um, it’s at the toilet level. It’s at the anal, it’s at the anal level which is the map is the most infantile level of development. And this is really what you’re pandering to.
– [Man] Well it, uh…
– Well, yes, it’s marvelously important for infants and for children who are one and two years old, and some people have difficultly with it all their lives, but…

– [Man] …far as I as the as one of the entities feel no sympathy for it and feel that the way it’s going to be presented—let’s not kid ourselves, I know the film business—and how it is presented and how it is cut and your soundtrack and your background… You don’t give us any idea of how you what you’re going to pull in as a background to it. You don’t give us any idea of how it’s going to be… what frame it’s going to take so therefore it can be utilized. My backside can be utilized to any of the… motivation or any desire that you wish to present on it, and I don’t necessarily have to have the sympathy with it. Fair enough, baby, you know. You make your scene I’ll make mine. I’m quitting, you know. Thanks anyway.

– [Woman] Like you sort of carry, you carry his argument right out into the street, you know, into his life, right into his life. You carry the whole thing right outside and I think ultimately it depends on: he wants to exercise a certain amount of control over the situation, over what he considers is his commodity, you know, his arse. He wants to, you know, know exactly and do what he wants, you know, with his arse. And so he says, he sees in this situation, you know, a situation where he has no control. Where he’s out, you know. Like he’s merely an agent, a passive agent being acted upon. But, you know, the question sort of arises, you know. He says this in contrast to what he believes, you know, happens outside, you know, where he thinks he does things purely of his own volition. You know, the question arises: does he do things purely of his own volition outside, you know?

– [Man 1] OK, dig it. This is a song, the lyrics of which are based upon some cats in a car coming down Park Avenue, Fifth Avenue, wherever you will, or like Shaftesbury Avenue, Park Lane, right, mooning.
– [Man 2] OK, here we go past the Hilton at 65, the doorman’s giving me the same old jive. I put my bottom out the window and all of a sudden he came alive!

– [Woman] I was in bed after rather a raving party on a Saturday night and being told to come down in three quarters of an hour without any warning of what’s happening is quite a rave, you know, when you’re in bed. I’m tired out of my mind, you know.

– [Woman] I know a model, for example, she’s one of the top models and because, say a year ago when she wasn’t so fashionable, she was seen wearing a corsetry, advertising corsetry, they wouldn’t accept her in high fashion because it creates an image to the public that she was doing this, you know, exposing herself, and then when it goes on to more serious wear fashion modeling it doesn’t help you at all in your career.

– [Man] what is new… surely one has to move with the times, but what are the times? I mean, we’re here today and gone tomorrow, you know, people… I mean you know you can go make films of screaming teenagers and rock and roll and God knows what. This is gonna last for five minutes, then it’s going to collapse. I mean, this is a new thing, I mean, I’ve never before, I’ve never before had my backside photographed. Now we all say we do things for the love of art. You know, and I heard about this this morning and I thought it was quite a giggle. I thought I came along solely out of out of interest. I thought it was some perv or something you know who’s gonna run a kinky film.

– [Woman] This consciousness comes into it again, but after you get used to a thing it changes, right? It’s just like the fashion of short skirts. It’s shocking when you first see it, but when you you become accustomed to seeing these legs, it’s not shocking anymore, you know?

– [Man] Well I don’t think we know this, because we’ve never exposed it before. It hasn’t really… it’s never been a subject to which, well, not myself, speaking personally… I’ve never considered it. But I think it is, it’s a very natural part of the body. I think it is something not to be ashamed of at all. I think it’s, in a way…

– [Man] I think the idea is a good one because, after all, bottoms are something probably underexamined so far. The human face has been looked at in every possible way by every kind of artist. Other parts of the body very largely haven’t. I think it was Samuel Beckett who recently said, “Why should any part of the body be considered any more obscene than any other?”

– [Man] You see, Yoko over there is one of the most identified persons I’ve come across for a long time, isn’t she? She’s identifying like a kid with a toy who is totally identified. And that kind of identification, to me, is a form of dying. The wrong kind of dying, yes, dying of the spirit. There is a certain modern literature created around the bottom—a considerable part of the Naked Lunch is devoted, you know, to trying to turn the bottom into a face.

– [Man] She is the film. She’s no longer a person, you see. She has become the film so her life has no meaning but for this. And you can say the same with someone in business: their life has no meaning but the success of what they’re doing at the moment. So they become it. The greater becomes the smaller. And you can be identified, a woman could be identified with a new hat, and that, believe me, is no worse than your co-identification with this film.

– [Man 1] It’s entirely upon not only the framing of the bottom but what the basic literary idea, because, or poetic idea behind it is. I mean, this is after all a center of pleasure. Most parts of the body are a central pleasure in one way or another, because elimination is one of our greatest daily pleasures, I suppose. Under-examined. Very much unsought of. Very much used. Can I say very much about it beyond that? Is it aesthetic? Well, I mean, it is and it isn’t, you know? It’s of great importance of and of very little importance, depending on the way you look at it. But I think the purpose of the film and the purpose of just filming a bottom must be two very different things and anything that creates new awareness must be good.
– [Man 2] Do you think this will?
– I don’t know.

– [Man] The fascinating thing about this film in its way is that, um, Yoko’s film reveals the truth about the human situation, but I don’t feel sure she has seen herself… she can’t have seen it or she wouldn’t be going on like this. So in a way it’s a satire on herself as well as on the human race, because she’s part of it. She’s not she hasn’t really gone outside it. She’s here talking about it. I’ve spoken to her about this that before she started it. And you could run her conversation against her bottoms and it will make her conversation seem so trivial and unimportant. Now, if you were to run those bottoms against, say, the Sermon on the Mount, try it and see what happens. Run it against the Daily Express or the kind of conversation you are, and it shows that human beings are living in the shadow, not in the substance. You might try that.
– [Man 2] How familiar are you with Gurdžiev? Are you?
– Yes, I am, of course. But you know from some of the others.

– [Man] And I think this process of gradually making everything more and more microscopic is going to continue. And not only are we going into outer space in one scientific field, we’re also going into inner space inside the human mind. And the more we find out about the human mind, the more we find we don’t know. Whereas people were afraid that… By examining these mysteries, you know, all the mystique, all the secret things were going to come out into the open. There would be no secrets left. We find an incredible number of new secrets we didn’t even imagine existed before.

– [Man] Well, I would like it to be absolutely clear that my name mustn’t come out. No, I haven’t seen it yet. And the whole thing, when you all came in to us on Wednesday, the whole idea was completely new to me. I’m not a person who goes to films very much, but I think… I’m always interested in new ideas. The old boy could have made this film and it would have looked the same as Yoko making it. But he would have made it knowing just what he was doing and would have used it on his own pupils. Now that is the difference. The old boy himself would have loved this film and would have loved making it. And it’s a typical Gurdžievian idea. But he would have done it knowing what he was doing. I don’t believe that Yoko does.

– [Woman] Quite seriously, what made you ever think of making this film? I mean, well, let’s just start. What made you ever think of making it?
– [Ono] Well, yes, I just wanted to make this kind of film, you know? And…
– Yes, but you must, you know, I mean, put sort of thoughts through your head or how you ever came…

– [Man 1] I could have easily got very depressed when you were going through those vows yesterday. Or was it? Yeah, Wednesday, wasn’t it? No, it wasn’t, it was yesterday.
– [Man 2] No?
– It was. It was Wednesday. Wednesday.

– [Man] Probably I’ll get rather bored, but it’s possible I won’t. I mean, my level for boredom is very high in the face of what you might call standard entertainment, and very low if I can find something I can get my teeth into.

– [Man 1] I suppose it is conceivable that it will make a change, but it would be very difficult in ordinary life to expose so little of the backside as is being exposed in this film.
– [Man 2] No, that’s…
– I mean, you’ll have to make a little window in your pants to produce the…

– [Man] I got almost high on it. And I can imagine that this might tend to look the same. It’s a rectangle, a frame divided into four, and that’s all it is.
– [Woman] I was thinking, getting high on bottoms…
– Exactly, and you will do it! It has a, it has a definite illusionary quality to it. But what…

– [Man] You see, to me it is not what one does that matters. It’s what is going on inside one while one’s doing it.

– [Woman 1] Friends I know, really, don’t think they’re going to see it. They’ll say, oh, it’s disgusting. They might walk out. Or some of them might just giggle, you know, take it for a big giggle. But, yes, the friends I know, well, things like that are disgusting. Oh, they just wouldn’t watch it. They’d come in, just watch one behind, a few of it, and just walk out.
– [Woman 2] Are they going to actually know that the film is like this before they go in?

– [Man] Well, I say, Gurdžiev could have made this. And would have done it beautifully. Not he would have done it any better than she’s doing it. It would have looked the same. But with him doing it, it would have been a real happening.

– [Man] But an accident, in any case, goes right back many centuries. It goes back to the Greeks. But Leonardo, in fact, in his notebooks, tells his students that they should look at the cracks on the ceiling or an old bit of falling down wall. And gradually, through concentration, begin to see landscapes, faces, people, situations, growing out of the fungus.

– [Woman] There’s a very light-hearted and happy aspect of it, you know.
– [Man] It would be take an incredible means to be light-hearted with his ass.
– Well, why can’t you be light-hearted with your bottom?
– Means.
– Mean?
– Mine. Incredible. No, the point is the film might have great worth or it may not. I mean, I don’t know. But as far as taking part in the film, I feel that there’s no talent to bring to it. You know, I mean, if you’re an actor, if you’re a trained actor, well, you’ve done all sorts of things for years and years in order to use your voice, in order to understand roles, in order to bring your psychology to bear, in order to bring your sensitivity to bear. And they, yeah, but everyone is a person down the street. Yeah, but then anyone can do, you don’t want to do what anyone…

– [Man 1] What does it say? Tell me about film that causes depression. It’s like just really, you know, you know, a performance, you know… [mumbling] In other words, if anyone could see the film, I’m liable.
– [Man 2] Well just, yeah, it’s just in case you fall off this thing, too. But be very careful not to do that, OK? That’s too much, a little slower. Try not to put your weight on that front bar. Sort of practice, get the hang of the platform, get it moving at a nice steady speed that’s comfortable for you.
– But this bar is across the back of my arm.
– Well, that’s to keep you from moving out of line. That’s not covering anything up at all. It’s just a guide bar. OK, that’s very good. Do you think you could move just to your right just a little bit? That’s too much. To your left. OK, that’s perfect, just like that. All right, I’m ready to take the shot. Just keep walking, just like that. That’s very good. OK, just maintain a nice steady, even speed, just like that. That’s good, Simon, just a nice steady, even speed.

– [Man] Well, Christ, I saw a woman who came in here who didn’t want to take her pants off, you know. I think that’s what the trouble was. I mean, you know, leaving me half actors and actresses, all they want to do is sort of… They see an advertisement for a film, they think, right, marvelous, I’m going to be in a film, get lots of publicity. They’re not interested in anything else.

– [Man] Yeah. And he’s saying that… In his article, he’s even saying how even the Shakespeare companies are now using methods that have been developed by the happening people, you see. And yet we had a Shakespearean actor come in, or a former Shakespearean actor, or an amateur Shakespearean actor. “Oh, no, I only do Shakespeare.” So there’s a real paradox in a way, you see, because he doesn’t even realize what’s happening.

– [Man] I mean, it’s big business, and big business like most other human activities are based on fear, it’s run by fear. Advertising on television costs a lot of money. So people are afraid. Your advertising manager’s afraid of what his chairman’s going to say, your chairman’s got his eye on his shareholders, and so on. And so very often they want to see in front of them visible evidence, they think, that this is selling, that it’s working hard, that they’re getting their money. I even had one client, I no longer have him, who used to count the number of times his product was mentioned in the film.

– [Man 1] A meaningless film, but meaningful.
– [Man 2] Oh, I said that somebody had said that this would be the most interesting meaningless film that they’d ever seen, a boring film.
– The most interesting boring…
– They had more movement than any boring film had ever been made. But Yoko must have something interesting to say about it.
– You did say… Oh, no, perhaps it was you…
– [Ono] No, he said that somebody said that this is going to be the most boring, but interesting film. The most interesting meaningless film. The most meaningful meaningless.
– [Man 2] Meaningful meaningless. What’s the expression?
– [Woman] You said the most interesting boring film.
– [Ono] And this meaningless meaningful thing, I was referring to Antonioni.

– [Man] I thought they would want more of a personal expression on your buttocks, whereas some people can manipulate their muscles, you know, and as you can make the features change, I mean, you can manipulate the muscles.

– [Woman] Yes, it’s all right, but I just sort of didn’t realize what it was about, so I just wanted to know.
– [Man] To find out what’s going on? How soon is your appointment?
– Well, I ought to go now, really.
– Are you interested in performing in the film?
– Well, I’d like to think about it.
– Would you like to find out more about it, too?
– Yes, sort of, you know, roughly.
– OK. Well, then why don’t you stop back? Even if you stop back, you don’t have to feel that you have to be in the film if you don’t want to, or whatever, just find out what’s going on.
– Yeah.
– OK?
– Yes.
– OK, great. We’ll be here until six o’clock.
– OK, right.
– Thank you very much.
– Thank you very much. Bye.

– [Ono] The rhythm goes like this. Like this all the way through. And it’s a rhythm, you see, like a beat, you see? It’s created by 365 behinds. Like this, you see? And finally you get high, you know? And also it’s marvelous that in the beginning you can give this credit, you see? It’s not anonymous behinds who are ashamed of their name. We give this credit. So it’s almost like a statement, you know, like a petition, you know? And the petition signed by behinds, you see, instead of your letter. So that it will be fantastic.
– [Man] Oh, crazy.
– You understand?
– Yes.
– And later, like in 50 or 60 years, they will say, this was the 1960s in London, London scene. And these were all very, in fact, intelligent people who represented the London scene at that time. And they, each one of them exposed the behinds, you see? And that is very interesting.

– [Man 1] It seems that… Many, many of us human beings do need this sort of stabilizing belief at the moment in something which they regard as greater than ourselves. Did you ever read the Vico?
– [Woman] Hello, can I speak to Michael White? It’s Judy James. I’m calling from Yoko Ono’s studio. Yoko Ono’s studio? Sure.
– Italian cat.
– He won’t know me. Judy James.
– What is it, you know, from… It’s like it comes through something that we’re out of the past of the men and women.
– [Man 2] Well, where can I get you to? When can I get you to the film? Where do you want to do that? I’d like to…
– [Woman] Hello. Yoko is wondering if you and your wife and your children and your family could come along and take part in the film.
– [Man 1] From his standpoint, the 18th century. And then, studying…
– Sure.

– [Man] Oh, certainly not, no. I am very interested in this type of work for the art sense of it, you see? I’ve been an actor. I’ve trained as an actor for two years and done quite a lot of work in this country. I’ve made money to some extent but I haven’t got the recognition as an artist. And I thought that something like this could be used as a springboard. Admittedly, when one walks, there isn’t much that one can see unless you look for it, as far as the art is concerned. But then again, when one participates in a project like this, there are so many people who would come to see a film like this. Some out of curiosity, some people who actually believe in the art of it. And one can make an impression.

– [Man 1] The time that he wrote it, amongst the people, the intellectual environment, it sort of represents, in a sense, a kind of Reichen attitude in the 18th century through Vico, as against the sort of, even art as an irrationality. Art is a utopian thing. Art is the… as that previous blissfulness, which he, you know, which Vico would say, well, now look, we don’t want to return, or we can’t return, or it never even happened. But this is just a supposition, a possibility that a man sounded like this before thought, before laws and all those things.
– [Man 2] Well, we know, but this is very much tied up with the fact that, this is very much tied up with the philosophical question of language, which is becoming more and more important now, because communication is, you know, one of the tremendous concepts now that we are thinking about more and more.

– [Man] Well, I can, I think that one can put it down to being prude. I mean, a lot of it, in spite of the fact that, you know, we are supposed to be civilized or have made certain advancements, as far as the unbaring of the body to the public, unless, of course, one is a nature worshipper. Actors are very prude, I would think, and I think that is the main reason why they are offended, not so much that they don’t feel that there’s an art in the sense. You see? I mean, some actresses are actors. They might be prepared, or they say they would be, to bare their bodies in a group amongst themselves. When it comes to the paying public, it can create an impression that they might think would be detrimental to them. I personally don’t think that. Hence, I’m here.

– [Man] Because words express concepts, or we…
– [Woman in background] I just don’t understand.
– We live through percepts, don’t we? Perceiving things: a table, people. These are percepts. As soon as we have perceived them in a certain part of the brain, we translate them into concepts…
– Is that Doctor Reznick? Reznick?
– And then we have to wrestle with these concepts in our minds.
– What? Oh, sure, sorry about that. Right. Wrong number.

– [Man 1] If you remember, Marilyn Monroe made a nude… She posed for a nude painting some years ago, before she died. And…
– [Man 2] The calendar.
– Yes, yes. And there was a big uproar about it. But when you think of it, Marilyn Monroe was a terrific actress. I mean, she got world acclaim for her acting ability afterwards. And surely, if someone like her could do a thing like that, I don’t see why other people can’t. I’m not advocating that everyone should do it. But I don’t see why there should be this fear that to do a thing like this would be offensive. When some of them have done, I know have done far worse things than this.

– [Man] The thing… the dichotomy of associative and apperceptive. Just that. If you take those two words and break them down, well, OK, an entire philosophy was built around the associative. The associative thing of the mind. And another one comes along and says, no, it’s apperceptive. And things like that. And then there’s somebody who has… Who is it? Hume or somebody with a mass. Considering the human mind as being able to evolve a kind of…

– [Woman] No, I don’t… I don’t think that people would have a problem about that. But I think that not many people would be really interested in it. You know, they would say, perhaps, I don’t know really. They would say, perhaps, nothing. I mean, in every country… I cannot say it now. Perhaps in England the same. I mean, most people I think would say it’s terrible nonsense.
– [Man] Reflection of one’s personality on the backside.
– I don’t know. I never saw so many. I mean, you see it every day. You see it in the street. But not really. You don’t watch them, really. You just want to show the movement. How different it is. It must be really different. But I didn’t see them naked. Can I say it exactly now?

– Yes. Yes. Especially in a country like England where we’re not so far from the Victorian age. People are very prudish. They don’t mind doing things if they think no one sees. You see. But to come and do this and knowing fully well that it’s going to be showed to the public. They have this worry, I would say. They don’t know who’s going to see it. And they don’t know who’s going to be offended. And they would rather not have to live in this sort of suspense.

– [Man on the phone] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I’m telling you. Yes, but David, David. But wouldn’t it be sad if he deluded himself about it? But he’s not deluding himself about it at all. Yeah, he does believe in that. But I think there’s a good justification. Because I think a lot of people can do that with this kind of film. I did, in a way, for a while. I don’t… I think you’re being too serious about it, actually.

[Text on screen] To be continued.

© Copyright 1966 by Yoko Ono Productions
World Rights Reserved

[Yoko Ono] Anyone who is interested could come up on the stage and try to fly off from these ladders.

I would like to break this vase here.

And if you’d like to . . . If you’d like to pick up the pieces, please come and pick up. And in ten years, let’s meet and put it together again. Thank you.

The next piece will be the last piece called the wrapping piece. And I will be sitting in the center of the stage. And anybody who would like to come up on the stage, please come up and wrap me with the gauze. I will not be able to get out of this bandage here until I disappear.

[Unidentified] Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! What’s the matter?

One russet, slap, slap, slap.

What sound did you all make?

I don’t know.

I don’t know.

I don’t know.

[Ono singing] Who has seen the wind? Neither you nor I. But when the trees bow down their heads, the wind is passing by. Who has seen enough? Only me and John. But when a smile goes ’round the world, our love is catching on. Oh smile, smile, smile, smile, smile.

[Singing] Because the world is round, it turns me on. Because the world is round… Ah… Because the wind is low, it blows my mind. Because the wind is low…

[Immigration Officer] What is the purpose of your trip?
[John Lennon] To rest, really.
[Immigration Officer] How long are you going to be in Montreal?
[Lennon] For a week at least.
[Immigration Officer] You’re all going for a week. Is this what’s happening?

[Woman shouting] Oh, my foot! My foot’s caught!

[Singing] Love is all, love is new. Because the world is round, it turns me on…

[Voiceover] On the 5th of May, Lisa Minnelli makes the bed.

[John Lennon] It’s a bed-in, folks.

[Yoko Ono] OK, I’m going to help. Oh, that’s good.

– [Man] Incidentally, a number of people have been asking about separate interviews at the time.
– [Lennon] Yeah, that’s OK. They can all have exactly what they want for seven days.
– Good, that’s great.

– [Lennon] Get in with us, Kyoko.
– [Ono] Get in with us, come on.
– Kyoko, come on.
– Kyoko.
– You must be good now because we’ve got to talk to them, so you must be good and quiet.

– [Lennon] Welcome to Montreal.
– [Man] We’ve already been here. We should be saying that to you.

– [Man 1] We’ll do the still pieces at the beginning. We can do television and video, we can get all the way through with the audio, the questions, any interviews, we’ll do at the very end.
– [Man 2] Well, that’s fine.
– [Overlapping voices] OK, radio and TV. So radio and TV. So let the still men get their bit. Come to the front, any handheld cameras. All the rest of you can set up. Listen, do you want to fire two or three questions, then I’ll fire two or three? Yeah, OK. OK, can we start the questions?

– [Reporter 1] John, how do you feel about the reception you got in the States?
– [Lennon] Well, I haven’t had one because we haven’t been there yet.
– Well, the reception before you got there was that you couldn’t get in. How do you feel about that?
– I’m a bit disappointed, you know, that they don’t seem to want peaceniks in there. I think that’s the main, one of their main sources of power and we’d like to lay a bit of peace on them, you know.
– Have you tried giving Harold Wilson any acorns?
– We thought we’d start with the big source, and that’s America, you know.
– And then you’re going to go on to the next one?
– We’d like to go to Moscow, to Turkey, and see the Pope if we could… We’d like to see all the heads, you know.
– [Reporter 2] You’ve said you’re through with marijuana. Why didn’t you give some to Harold Wilson?
– [Reporter 3] Is there not a more positive way of demonstrating in favor of peace than sitting in bed?
– [Lennon] What could be more positive, you know? I think it’s very positive.
– [Ono] It’s positive.

[Lennon] It makes some people very uptight, but we’ve got to do it.

– [Reporter] How about the company that you and Yono have formed, this Bag Productions?
– [Lennon] Yoko. Bank production. Bank production is what takes care of our business, you know. That’s books, films, and records.
– [Ono] Well, now you see, John and Yoko is a team, you see, and we’re doing it together.
– [Reporter] But you were a filmmaker before. Are you still going to make films?
– [Ono] We’re making films together now, yes.
– [Lennon] Well, you’re on one now.
– [Reporter] Are we?
– [Ono] Yes.
– [Lennon] Yes. You’re in it.

– [Lennon] I think they might think I’m going to hot up the revolution, you know. I want to cool it down.
– [Ono] That’s why we’re doing this, because we thought it’s very urgent. I mean, every one of us are in it.
– [Lennon] If we make people laugh, that’s enough. Happiness is a good vibe for peace. But they could, I’m saying, grow your hair for peace. Or cut it off. Have some sign on it that’s for peace, you know. All we’re saying is if you think you can do better, do it. You top it. Stop asking us, do you think it’s going to work, you know? Do something yourself.
– [Reporter] Your little daughter is very much involved in the peace movement. Do you think that more children should be?
– [Ono] Yes, I hope so, yes.
– [Reporter] How should it be accomplished?
– [Ono] Well, we’re not here to preach. This is our way of saying we’re with you, you know, to the young generation.

– [Al Capp] I’m a dreadful, Neanderthal fascist. How do you do?
– [Lennon] How do you do? That’s a nice introduction.
– Mrs. Lennon. How do you do?
– Would you like to sit on the edge of the bed here?
– I like to have something hard, for instance. This is too seductive.
– OK, can you get a chair?
– Yeah, there’s a chair.
– Chair right around the corner…
– Yeah, well, we’re those famous freaks.
– Yeah. Part of the game. Yeah, you know, so far you’ve been confronted mainly with admirers, and I may wind up to be one. You never can tell.
– We’ve had all sorts in here, believe me.
– I’m sure you have. I, uh… one of the things that, that, uh, interested me was the method you’ve chosen. This is to inspire peace, clearly.
– Yeah. We’re trying to sell it like soap, you know. The only way to sell is to focus attention and sell every day.
– Well, you feel that being in bed compels more attention than if you were sitting on chairs?
– Yeah. And it makes it easier for us, because we talk ten hours a day, and it’s functional for us to be lying down.
– Being in bed is one thing, but you could go further. You could shower together.
– [Ono] Yes, of course we do.
– [Lennon] We just did it. Actually, I did it alone.
– [Capp] Well, now answer me this: when you have someone seated here, who is beginning to get the message, and suddenly, you know, you feel the call of nature or something like that, as you’re bound to, do you leave, do you abandon the guy, break up the mood, or can he go with you?
– [Lennon] If he wants to, I suppose. Nobody’s ever asked.
– I see, all right. I just wondered, you know, people… whether you want the risk.
– The message is that they’ve got to think for themselves and do it themselves, so they should go and pee themselves.
– All right. Now, let’s say that some other couple, inspired by what you’re doing, lying in bed for peace, wanted to carry this theme on. Now, clearly, they could lie in bed. I mean, Beatle imitations aren’t really as hard as they used to be. But let’s say they wanted to carry this thing on. Let’s say they want to carry… What is the next step they do for peace?
– We don’t know the next step until we get to it, you know.
– No, no. But let’s say an even more committed couple than you.
– Yes.
– Even more willing to…
– It’s up to them to think of it. We’re set, we’re giving incentive for people to…
– I see. But this is the way to do it?
– This is a way.
– This is a way, yes.
– [Ono] And we’re just wishing that the next generation is much wiser than us, and they’ll think a wiser scheme, you know.
– [Capp] Now, here, I read something that you said that you were very shy people in the globe.
– Yes, we are, sir.
– And yet, these are…
– [Lennon] Does that prove you’re not shy?
– [Capp] Certainly not. Only the shyest people in the world would take pictures like this.
– Well, the shy people, do they ever become naked or not? Do you think that people that are shy have to wrap themselves up in cardboard?
– Am I quarreling with your description of yourselves? If that isn’t a picture of two shy people, I’d like to know what shyness is. Oh, what filth!
– Do you think that’s filth?
– Certainly not. I’m denouncing people who think it is.
– Thank you.
– I think that everybody owes it to the world to prove they have pubic hair, and you’ve done it. You’ve done it, and I tell you that I applaud you for it.
– Why don’t you prove it now?
– I… I don’t feel that there’s any great interest in it. Clearly, you must have felt the world wanted to know what your private parts looked like, and now the world knows. And I tell you that’s one of the greatest contributions to enlightenment and culture of our time.
– I’m glad you’ve noticed.
– I want to tell, you it’s hard not to notice. There were a couple of other things that I… They told me you’d written a… Yes, I have, I think… See, I don’t know much about you people, and I have come all the way from Boston to interview you, and I think I owe it to you to know something about you, don’t you? Don’t you think I owe it to you?
– We do our best to be open about what we are.
– Yes, well, I must say.
– Yeah.
– I… Now…
– Draw any good cartoons lately?
– I’ve done nothing else but good cartoons. Always. Now… Now, you have a song, and one of the lines, and correct me if it isn’t, “Christ, it ain’t easy. Everywhere I go, they’re going to crucify me.”
– Rubbish. I didn’t say that. The lyrics go, “Christ, you know it ain’t easy. You know how hard it can be. The way things are going, they’re going to crucify me.” And you, baby.
– Well, this isn’t my song, but these don’t express my…
– [Ono] We’re all together in this world. Let’s face it, you and I are married together in this world. You see, it’s like being stuck in…
– [Capp] Now, that is a very unkind thought to plant in my mind. I want to tell you that this may stay with me and I’ll wake up screaming. This is not true. You say that to him, not to me.
– That’s your paranoia. Everybody’s married in this world.
– No, it’s just a matter of taste.
– We’re stuck with each other.
– It’s a matter of taste.
– OK, well, whatever taste you want to hold onto, I mean, everything in the world…
– I’ll hold onto what I’ve got.
– Whatever, all right. Whatever you do in the world affects others, whatever we do in the world affects them, you see, and that’s why, in that sense, we are married together.
– Well, yes, but may I remind you that it was your husband I was speaking to?
– [Lennon] Oh, let’s be specific.
– [Capp] Yours was a very illuminating note.
– So, what do you want to know?
– But in the lyric, you said they were going to crucify you.
– Yeah, if you take it literally…
– Well, how did you mean it?
– It means everything you want it to mean.
– What did you want it to mean?
– They’re going to crucify me, and you, and everyone else.
– [Ono] If he’s crucified, you’ll be crucified, too.
– [Capp] Well, I haven’t said that they were going to crucify me.
– [Lennon] I have.
– I’ve not… You make the claim they’re going to crucify you.
– Everyone.
– But you said, “they’re going to crucify me.”
– Oh, if you’re going to take everything literally…
– [Ono] Me is you.
– [Lennon] Me and I say that we are all one.
– [Capp] Well, I don’t permit you to speak for me. Who are you speaking for?
– I took that liberty, Mr. Capp.
– Well, it’s too much of a liberty for you to take.
– Well, speaking on behalf of the people in general, you know, in a poetic sense… I hope it doesn’t upset you.
– You’re speaking for yourself. It does upset me.
– Well, you’ll listen to the record, then.
– If I’m going to choose a spokesman, I’ll choose Vaughan Munro. If I can choose my own singer. And I’ll choose Madame Nhu rather than…
– I can choose to sing about what I want in whichever fashion I wish.
– Yes, but you mustn’t include me. Now you’re not my spokesman, are we agreed?
– I’m everyone’s spokesman. No, you’re not mine.
– Not mine. Everybody but me.
– You’re mine and I’m yours.
– No, you’re…
– [Ono] If you write an article, whatever article that may be, it’s going to affect us. It’s going to affect all these people.
– [Capp] I don’t say I am speaking for John Lennon.
– [Lennon] As a representative of the human race, I’m speaking for us all, whether you like it or not.
– [Capp] Well, whatever race you’re the representative of, I ain’t part of it. Now, it may be yours is the human race, and mine is something less hirsute. But whatever race, that’s your race. You belong to a race on your own.
– [Ono] No, everybody in this room represents humanity. Everybody in this room.
– [Capp] No, you don’t represent me, though, and you don’t write songs for me. I want to make that clear to all of Canada.
– [Lennon] Yes, I do. Especially for you.
– [Capp] I’ll let Kate Smith sing my song.
– Who do you write your cartoons for?
– I write my cartoons for money, just as you sing your songs. Exactly the same reason.
– Yeah, but…
– And exactly the same reason much of this is happening, too, if the truth be told.
– Do you think I couldn’t earn money by some other way, by sitting in bed for seven days, taking shit from people like you? I could write a song in an hour and earn more money…
– Now, look here. Now, don’t say this. You got into bed so people like me would come and see you.
– Yeah, right. Not for money. That’s what you’re saying.
– It won’t do you any real harm, except you might get some bedsores.
– But I could earn money in easier ways than doing this.
– But I tell you what would do you harm… So could I. I could make a lot more drawing people like you than confronting you, and I must say it’s much more appetizing drawing them because I can leave them.
– I prefer singing to doing this, but I’m doing this for a reason.
– What you’ve just done is, when you said, “taking shit from people like you…” Now, I was invited here. You knew I was coming.
– Yeah, sure.
– That’s right.
– So we’re not doing it for money. You indicated I was doing it for money.
– You haven’t any manners at all.
– You have manners?
– Why, I’m your guest. And really…
– And I’m yours.
– No, you’re not. This is your bedroom.
– [Ono] Mr. Capp, may I say one thing?
– [Capp] Oh, just one would be good.
– If the Martians come here and see you, and even no matter how you explain to them that you have no connection with me… to them, they wouldn’t see the difference between my father and you.
– Those Martians…
– They may take you as my father.
– There are a lot of people who think that all Orientals look alike. Well, they’re Martians. They are Martians. I don’t think so. I think you look different from other Orientals, so I don’t give a damn what Martians…
– Everybody looks different.
– Any Martian who thinks that you speak for me, we’re going to go right back to Mars and read the history of Earth.
– Everybody’s different but, at the same time, everybody’s connected.
– But now… Then you… I made some note about… But this business of “going to crucify me,” what indications have you had that you’re about to be crucified?
– [Lennon] I’d say we’re all about to be crucified if we don’t do something about war.
– [Capp] Yes, well…
– OK?
– That isn’t anything new. That’s been said a long time…
– Well, who’s saying it’s something new? Who’s making any new claims?
– Well…

– We have to do the one thing that the unions did to bust the establishment.
– Yes, right.
– That was organize. Charge your dues and say, as a member, I will not represent you, we will represent poor folks out here, thanks to you. And then the system crumbles. The system falls. And it don’t fall at the tone of a gun, or at the tone of violence, or the tone of being lifted up. The bad part is, when systems usually fall, you got to rebuild it. This way, you rebuild it as it’s falling because this whole system, as we know, have to go, because it don’t dare. You see, we put emphasis on property rights instead of human rights. And the day that we get a move across the world going, that human rights, not property rights, is the number one thing that we are concerned about, then you get a different bag. It’s like in America. We tell American kids how beautiful democracy is. And you got to ask yourself the question, if democracy is so damn good, why do we got to go all over the world trying to ram it down people’s throat with a gun? And the day we make our democracy work right for the first time, that’s the first day we put the guns down, because anything good, you don’t have to force on people to steal it. You know, I was always hung up when I was a kid with my church to tell me that I couldn’t kill a man that broke in my house and raped my wife and daughter, but the state could kill one and church never told the state not to do it. I felt like they was picking on me, you know? And then when you look at this scene in America where you get the electric chair, who’s leading you? The priest or the minister. That’s the last scene you get to see. You could wipe out capital punishment in America in the morning if you took this film crew here and went up to a man who was getting an electric chair and said, if you would let us film this all the way through, we could guarantee you your death would wipe out capital punishment in America. And you go in and you film him. And then you tell everybody that the Beatles is going to do a special, Christmas Eve. And you tell everybody in America, don’t eat. Plan your meal around the special.
– [Ono] Great idea.
– [Man] We’re going to eat at two o’clock. And the special comes on at one. And when the special come on at one, baby, show them that cat getting it. Nobody want to eat. And then the whole country be outraged because the last thing we get to see in America is the minister, very sweet cat. That’s our symbol of capital punishment. Show that cat all the way through.
– [Lennon] Beautiful.
– [Ono] Great idea.
– [Man] Now, this is where, this is where you take a name. You know, when people say, well, you’re doing it for publicity.
– [Ono] Publicity’s fine.
– [Man] Morally dedicated entertainers have to do things for publicity as long as it’s morally pure. Because you have, well, you see, in America, we’ve used publicity so bad. We’ve brought fakes out like we’ve committed suicide or…
– [Lennon] We’re trying to change publicity’s image, you know.
– [Man] …fake out a suicide or fake out a kidnapping, you know. But once that the American public could see that, once they could be primed for, “We’ve got this special, baby,” and the kids would say, “Mama, we can’t eat until.” “Why?” “Beatles said we can’t eat until.” And then: lay it on ’em and nobody want to eat. And we so hung up with food in America. See, we’re the only country in the world that more people die from overeating than under-eating. So if you blow that meal jam, we will hate capital punishment for the rest of our life.

– [Lennon] Did they take your homegrown off you?
– [Tommy Smothers] Yeah.
– Bastards.
– That’s just part of it.
– Yeah.
– Nixon stepped in. Not letting you in the country either.
– Yeah.
– That bastard.
– Yeah, right! I’m just a perverted drug pop star, you know, and all that bit.
– And someone who’s starting to turn off moderates. And I’m not a far-out cat.
– Yeah.
– But they’re pushing me farther and farther and farther.
– Yeah.
– I don’t look it either. But they’re taking a lot of cats with ties.
– Yeah.
– You know, like that establishment look. Now all of a sudden they’re getting a little bit of that tear gas. They happen to sweep by and hit the cats they were after, they start to hit a guy that was just there to see what was happening.
– Well, that’s, you know, we say violence begets violence and the establishment is getting more violent and they’re getting violence back. But, you know, they’re losing a lot. They’re losing.
– They’re not. They’ve won.
– What, the establishment?
– Yeah.
– No, they haven’t.
– [Ono] No, they haven’t.
– [Lennon] They don’t stand a chance.
– [Smothers] Yes, but every, every civilization has been cultured, you know, as civilized society. The first thing they give them is the tidbit, the tokenism, like putting on a black man in the commercial or one black kid in the singing chorus.
– [Ono] Yes, yes.
– And you see that, what they’re doing, they’re given that… the sexual thing, like all the books, the movies, the literature, and yet the most important thing where you turn on, whether it’s the ABM system, the ballistic missile system, they don’t talk about that. There’s no open discussion. Then they have polls, and poll people what their opinions are on them. So they have no opinions except the little tidbits they’ve been given. No dialogue, open dialogue. And then the politicians in turn equate how they’re going to react and what they’re going to vote for based on the polls, which were based on lack of information to begin with.
– That’s terrible, but that’s no reason to give up. That’s even more reason to fight over it, you know.
– Are you kidding?
– Yeah, but you know, you have to do that. And there’s no space for, no space or no time for negative thoughts, you know. We just have to say, listen, we’re going to make it. That’s all. You know. And we have to make it. Don’t you see?
– Yeah, we have to make it. It’s like being dropped in the middle of the ocean.
– Yeah, but we have to make it.
– You know, and there’s 800 miles. You know you’re not going to swim it. But you don’t just drown. You start swimming. Even though it’s hopeless.
– [Lennon] You don’t know if you’re going to come across a log or if you’re going to come across an island.
– [Smothers] Yeah, or a porpoise that’ll pick you up, maybe.
– Yeah, OK. Well, believe in porpoise then. Believe in porpoise.

– [Man] How long have you been abroad?
– [Woman] Since July.

– [Lennon] But the only way we can change the system is by changing it non-violently. Because they’ve done the violent kick for millions of years, you know. And even if you can beat the establishment at their own game, you knock this place down, like Russia, you build it up and then you hang on to it. Because then you’re the new establishment. I don’t believe in that game. I think the only way to do it is Gandhi’s way. And that’s non-violent, passive, positive, or whatever they called it those days.
– [Man 1] A lot of military research is being eliminated in universities. It’s coming about through violent means and I think it’s…
– So, I mean, if you believe violence will solve the problem, that’s up to you. I don’t, you know. It might have a few instances, OK? But nobody’s ever tried the peace thing. Just tell me, any sustained peace propaganda or peace, non-violent movements that ever lasted?
– [Man 2] The Civil Rights Movement in the States.
– [Lennon] Yeah, it started off non-violent. What happened, you know? The marches turned into… Every time they marched, there was chaos.
– [Ono] If you want to march, why don’t you have two children in your hand and march, you know? If you don’t want to take that risk, don’t march.
– Now it’s a different age, you know? And it’s gimmicks and salesmanship. And if that’s what will put it across, that’s the way to do it. Whether you’re protesting against the conditions you live in, or the conditions you work in, or the conditions of the whole world. I think there’s better methods to be used, you know? And we’re not saying everybody lay in bed. I mean, it’d be a nice idea if they all did. You know, but OK, this is suitable for us. We hope it gives some suggestions for people to say, well, what good’s that doing?
– It’s just a gimmick, you know?
– They’ll do something else. We’re selling it like soap, you know? And you’ve got to sell and sell until the housewife thinks, “Oh, well, there’s peace or war. That’s the two products.”
– You don’t extend a hand to establishment. How would you expect the establishment to extend their hands to you, you know?
– [Man 3] Why must we make this perpetual compromise? Why must I sit down because this camera chooses to be more important than me because he represents some kind of institution? Why does he have the right to push me aside? I don’t get pushed aside, because I don’t like violence either.
– [Ono] I’m not regarding the camera as an institution. That’s your word.
– This is the compromise
– [Lennon] We’re not compromising.
– [Man 3] You are, in taking the Queen Elizabeth Hotel. Well, I think ultimately it might not be something which can be conceived of in five years or ten years. It might be tgat everybody in themselves just turns on to honesty.
– [Ono] That’s what we’re trying to do.
– [Lennon] Everybody’s an artist and everybody’s a poet. And who told you you weren’t a poet? Some square-head said at 11. And now you can’t draw, now you can’t do this. That’s what we’re against. To tell everybody you are infinite and you have all the possibilities of being Hitler or Christ, whichever way you want to go. But we’re trying to promote it so they’re aware that they are artists, everybody’s an artist, and everybody is responsible for the bomb or whatever happens.

[TV reporter] The worst of the violence at Berkeley came when jeering student strikers began to throw rocks and bottles at a group of about 20 deputies.

– [Man on phone 1] OK, let me check in. Yep. All right. What’s going to happen is I guess…
– [Lennon] What’s happened? It’s on. But it’s not on those over there.
– OK, I’m gonna turn this all on to the air.
– OK. What? You’ll have to talk loud, you know. Like, project.
– We’re willing… OK, everybody’s green and your microphone should be on now.
– [Man on phone 2] OK, start it now.
– [Man on phone 1] You can start off, OK?
– OK. OK, here we go. Three, two, one. We’re talking on the phone right now from Montreal with John Lennon. Hello, John.
– [Lennon] Hi, how are you?
– Fine, fine. Can you hear us?
– Yeah, just about, with a lot of static or whatever.
– Is there anything you’d like to know about the park situation?
– Well, just tell us where it’s at now.
– I was down there about a minute ago at the bathing area. It’s becoming very, very organized. So, what I’d like to know is, John and Yoko, what would you do right now? You have 20,000 people or so outside, sitting there.
– Well, the thing is, if it looks like violence, just get out and let ’em have the park, you know? It’s not worth killing yourselves for a park.
– Well, this is my theory, exactly, and it’s not worth anybody losing their lives for. It’s not worth having… [unclear]. I wonder if you could make the message to get the ball rolling, on tape. It’s possible we could take it down there and play it.
– You’ll have to talk up, you know?
– Yeah, we’re going to scream.
– Yeah, scream, man.
– We’re going to take a tape down there, and we want to play it to the people. So, if you could make just a message right now that we’ll take down. They’re probably listening anyway right now.
– OK. Listen, there’s no park worth losing your life for, and you’ve been sitting on the beach and looking at the sea and wondering how to change it or how to get in or how to learn to swim. Now, OK, you did a good thing, and you moved into the water to learn how to swim, but you walked in at the deep end where the current is, so now you’ve had the danger signal. So get out the water, go back on the beach, and rethink your policy. It’s not worth getting killed for a park. It’s just as greedy as the establishment wanting that bit of grass. There’s plenty of room. The best thing you can do to them is walk out in the whole town. Just leave the place. Let them have it.
– Yeah, well, where do we go?
– Go anywhere, man. It’s better than dying.
– True. The park was originally made, as we said, a political, cultural, free zone. The first thing that happens is they move in and they fence it up and they shoot people because people are upset. I’m upset at the fact that this is the way we handle things in the United States because everyone has to throw rocks at each other and then shoot them. I mean, it’s nice, though, if you keep leaving, but there’s just so many times you can keep leaving. You know, if the Indians kept leaving for God knows how many years…
– Yeah, but, I mean, they did fight, didn’t they?
– Yeah, in the end, finally.
– Yeah, you know, I just say, whatever, violence begets violence. And, you know, I just, I don’t believe in anything else. And I don’t believe there’s any park or anything worth getting shot for. And you can do better by moving on to another city or going to Canada, or go anywhere. And then they’ve got nothing to attack and nobody to point a finger at. You don’t need all that education. You don’t need to get your, whatever it is, exams that you’re going to finish. What for? To turn into them? Just move off rather than get killed. Stay at home or stay in bed or make love, not war, that’s all we’re saying. Just remember that.
– Well, OK.
– [Ono] No, but keep moving. And while you’re moving, you’re not just moving and grooving, but you work on it. And the next time when you go to another town, it’s better. And it just goes on and on like that. And if you go on living in all the cities in the world, then every city will have your footmark, and all the cities will be better each time, because of your footmark. Just keep moving because the whole world is yours. And don’t think that your problem there is not ours. It’s the same thing if you live in that room or this room here that we’re staying in. It’s the same thing.
– [Man on phone 1] Well, is there anything final you want to say to people out there? Why don’t you make like, just sum up how we should go about changing our art or decide just the present situation of a park controversy? Or just, you know, or just how we go about changing it with the advertising?
– [Lennon] You should keep up a constant day-to-day solid advertising campaign as they do to us. They’re on all the time selling their war and selling their products. We must do the same. You’re always saying, “Entice them, entice them and con them.” You know, you’ve got the brains and you can do it… What?
– We can do it. We can make it.
– You can make it, man. We can make it. Together. We can get it together. We can get it together. Now that’s all.
– Right. OK, well…
– And keep pushing, man, and we’re with you. And if we could get near you, we’d be there.
– Yeah, I wish you could. I think, I think the best way that we could solve this is if you showed up. Well, I wish we could get in, but we can’t at the moment, you know. So save yourselves for when we come.
– OK, we will. OK, nice talking to you. Thanks a lot for calling us. And we’re going to get this out to as many people as we can.
– [Ono] And good luck to you, whatever you do.
– [Man on phone 1] Thanks a lot.
– [Lennon] OK, bye-bye. Call us any time, you know. The line’s open for your station only, all day and night.
– OK, well, we may call you and tell you what’s happening.
– You do that.
– OK.
– OK, peace now, and make it work. Get it together.
– OK, goodbye.
– Bye-bye.
– Bye.
– Bye-bye.

– [Man] We are revolutionaries. That is to say, we want to overthrow the government.
– [Ono] Yes, but you can’t do it with this! We said this is crap, and I’m sorry. No matter how beautiful a poem is, if you can’t share with people, if you can’t reach people, then it’s crap.
– [Lennon] Your main energy should be going into the people on the street. Get your priorities right.
– [Ono] Yeah.
– It’s people who are going to change the government. It’s people’s minds that are going to be open to know that they are it and they can run without government. Just get people indoctrinated to think peace, you know. It’s the only way. You’ve got to get through to housewives and children. They’re going to be the next generation. You’ve got to get through to them and convince them that peace is the way. That’s why we’re saying, look, you’ve got women in your organization. Photograph ’em, and then sell it and just have less words and more peace. No intellectualism, none of the approach and how we’re going to do it and what we’re going to do when we get control. Don’t be snobs about it. Get down, get your trousers off and sell.

– [Lennon] John and Yoko on introducing the Flaming Red Rabbi.
– [Abraham Feinberg] Have you indicated to young people how much rehearsing you had to do? How much sheer, hard, constant work, discomfort, sacrifice that you had to go through before you achieved this?
– But it wasn’t sacrifice. It was just…
– [Ono] He was just enjoying it.
– [Lennon] I was enjoying myself and it was that. And the kids that follow us…
– [Feinberg] But you worked hard, you must have worked.
– Yeah, OK, but work is a relative word, you know. Work is pleasure.
– [Ono] I just have to say it because I hate that kind of concept, you know, because that’s ruining the whole society, is achievement and results. Because the adults and the grown-ups tell the kids, “You have to achieve something, even if it’s a small thing, you have to achieve something, you have to show us a result,” you know. So they’re saying, “Oh, I have to show some result,” you know, so they patch up a result. Unnatural results. “Here’s some result,” you know? But that’s all hypocrisy. They don’t have to show any results. They don’t have to achieve anything. All they have to do is to be natural.
– [Feinberg] They don’t have to show any ledger.
– [Ono] And not only that, but they don’t even have to work hard. Why do you have to work hard?
– [Lennon] It’s achievement to eat your breakfast.
– Yes.
– And it’s achievement to clean your teeth.
– And it’s an achievement to enjoy. It’s an achievement in that sense, you see, because…
– You’re just as satisfied after taking a good bath and the effort it took you to fill the bathtub and get in that bath.

– [Lennon] Bagism, hagism, flagism, nagism, tagism, ragism.

– [Man] In now, please, girls.
– [Lennon] Hi, People USA.
– [Women] Hi.
– How are you? Pleased to see you. “I have travelled from New York City to Washington to Toronto to be with you…”
– [Woman] We brought you a small gift. We didn’t have too much.
– [Lennon] That’s OK. Just the thought that counts.

– [Man] Next, please.

– [Lennon] I see you’ve brought the Queen with you.
– [Woman] This is something that I thought you could use.
– Now we’re all the same.
– So, I made it and I had to…
– [Man] It nearly got lost.
– [Woman] This has been good. I’ve got to put him a helmet on. I was going to put him in another hole.
– [Lennon] It’s fantastic, though.

– [Man] They can carry it like this.
– [Lennon] I think it’s fine like that. All you need is love.
– They’re giving flowers away.
– That’s fantastic. Fantastic. They’re giving flowers away for peace.
– [Ono] That’s great.
– [Kyoko] What does that say?
– [Woman] “Peace.”
– [Lennon] Peace. P-E-A-C-E. P-E-A-C-E.

– [Man] Oh, yeah, yeah. Hi.
– [Lennon] Now, this guy walks from Toronto to Montreal for peace. And the first thing we do is get him some coffee.
– [Ono] Film him.
– Sit down.
– [Man] I want a cup of water.
– [Lennon] Water? OK. Can you get him some water? And you can get us some coffee, too.
– [Ono] I mean, a living example of peace.
– [Lennon] Well done, well done. Well, that’s a beautiful thing you did. You must be… We’ll fix you up a bed down the back there so you can get some sleep. Are you hungry?
– [Man] Well, I was fasting since, uh, since Wednesday.
– [Woman] And walking!
– [Lennon] Fasting and walking. Fantastic.
– [Man] Uh, I might continue to fast until Wednesday. I don’t know. I’ll see what I feel like.

– [Reporter] What did you talk about? What did you agree on? And if anything, what did you disagree on?
– [Lennon] We didn’t disagree on anything, and we said everything’s gonna be perfect, paradise from now on.
– Your two outlooks on life and your two goals, do they come together?
– [Man] Well, they’ve always been together. We all belong to a very ancient brotherhood and sisterhood. And this particular time around, we have different slots and different roles to play. But we’re moving towards the same goal, which is the only goal, which is get it all together and love and…
– [Lennon] Come together.

– [Man] The swami was wanting to bring a couple of people here to give you a demonstration of yoga this afternoon, of chanting and breathing.
– [Lennon] We’re really packed out.
– Are you really?
– You know, the only break we have is to eat.
– He’s going to be so disappointed.
– It just goes on all day, you know. We haven’t got time for demonstrations or even to do anything ourselves. All we can do is talk.

– [Man] OK. Might as well take the whole thing off. You can demonstrate it best… Lie down. Put one hand on your abdomen and the other on your chest. The hand on your chest should not move.

– [Woman 1] The newspaper that came?
– [Lennon] Yeah.
– [Woman 2] And it was completely smashed.
– [Woman 1] They didn’t say even half the truth.
– [Lennon] Yeah, well, we can’t stop that, you know. We’ve just got to keep pushing out the message and hope some of it gets through.
– [Woman 2] I bring those kids.
– [Lennon] OK, bye-bye. Peace.
– Peace, absolutely. Peace. How? Maybe. Maybe this way.
– Definitely, definitely.
– Yes. And your daughter is so sweet.
– Thank you.
– You are still a lucky man.
– [Ono] Oh, we’re both lucky.
– [Woman 2] Not because of your records. Oh, thanks. For me? That’s nice.
– [Lennon] Bye-bye.
– Bye-bye and bon chance.
– Bonne chance, yes, and good luck.
– [Ono] Yes, bonne chance.

– [Lennon] Foxy, Foxy.
– [CFOX reporter] What? Can I talk to you?
– Yeah, sure.
– OK. OK, Rog.
– Oh, hi, hi. Hi. We’re with you. How are you? We’ll be with you in a sec. We’re just going to talk to the Fox.
– Oh, everybody’s in smiling spirits today, especially… Hey, listen. Why we want to talk to you right now is because this afternoon it’s going to be a very nice day. We’re going to try to get everybody up on Fletcher’s Field on Mount Royal to have, you know, a peace in.
– Great. Beautiful, beautiful.
– So why don’t you just say to everybody, “Montrealers, unite. Go up there!”
– Montrealers, unite. Get up on the hill and peace it.
– And also…
– Come now.

– [Ono] I think that’s a great one.
– [Lennon] Beautiful.
– [Man 1] Isn’t that nice?
– [Man 2] Yeah. I like that one very much. I like this one, I think.

– [Man] Do you want to be the witness? That’s good enough. That camera will serve as witness. Yeah.
– [Lennon] Yeah, but we’ve got to put…
– Yeah, no, I’m going to… How much percent do you want to give ’em?
– All of it, you know.
– What? OK. I’m saying what percent should I give you?
– We don’t want any percent.
– No, but the percentage…
– You get…
– [Ono] What you get goes to them.
– [Man] Yeah, what percent should I give you? What percent should I mark down to make it legal?
– [Lennon] What do you want?
– Is ten OK?
– Yeah, sure. Can we give the rest to whoever we decided on?
– No, no, no. I mean ten to them.
– No, ten to you and the rest to them.
– Ten to me? How much money do you think I… Come on. Are you a businessman?
– Yeah, sure.
– I have to make ’em up. That’s my cost, right?
– Right.
– I have to distribute them, get them distributed, right?
– Yeah.
– That’s also my cost. You know, everyone takes a percentage. You know how it is.
– Don’t do that.
– How can I get away from it?
– [Ono] They can promote it, you know, and let them promote it. Let them distribute it, you know. And you get a photography percentage.
– [Lennon] And you just take a percent for originating. Let them do all that.
– [Man] OK, sure. That’s a cool way to do it. Yeah, I never thought of that.
– OK, so we better…
– [Ono] And then you wouldn’t have any expense. You just give the photograph to them, right?
– [Lennon] And then they give money money and spread the word.
– And you get paid in percentage or, I mean, commission or photographer’s fee.
– [Man] OK.

– [Man 1] He’s gonna sing that again. You know, that sort of thing. A sort of epilogue.
– [Man 2] That doesn’t hang me out, you know. If he’s got a reason for not wanting to do it, that’s OK with me. And because we have the tape, I can improvise on that. The other things are the important things.
– All right.
– And I want to lay that out with him. You know, I want this completely organized. And I… You know, I know where I’m going. I want to do an hour show as an hour show.
– Right. I understand.
– OK?… You’ll get comfortable. Why do you need them? Broach him in anything, man… What were my views about sex? What are they today?
– [Man 3] Sounds great.
– [Man 2] Sex is a many-splendored gig.
– Right, right, right. Right? Right.
– I won’t be talking any louder than this. It’s about the level that I’ll be communicating. That’s if I communicate. If I don’t communicate, no matter what level you have, it’s not gonna do you any good.
– OK, Here they come.
– OK. Is my hair all mussed up or do I look like a doll?
– All right. All right. Start rolling.
– … what am I going to do about the bomb and all of that thing.
– OK.
– Give us two minutes.
– I’m going to give you two minutes. Should we give them a minute?
– [Lennon] Yes, we’ll give them a minute.
– [Woman] Oh, all right. Thank you.
– [Man 3] All right, unzip it there.

– [Man] I don’t sit back. I fight against the monster.
– [Ono] No, no. Don’t fight against a monster. Fight against yourself.
– How?
– The ignorance that you have. The unawareness that you have. You have to be aware.
– But I’m not unaware. I’m very aware. I’m fighting against a monster. I’m making known to the people the fact that they are being alienated.
– Well, you’re just advocating hatred
– [Lennon] You’re alienating the people against other people.
– [Ono] And the monster is going to be more monstrous when you alienate him.
– [Man] The monster is just a superstructure.
– Super-structure’s made…
– Handled by…
– No, no. It’s the people, and we have to change their minds. Unless we change their minds, Vietnam is going to happen everywhere.
– That’s the long run goal, sure.
– Well, because people are always impatient and just, as John said, just picking up rubbish that’s thrown out of the truck, it’s never going to stop. We have to go to the source of the evil.
– [Lennon] Haven’t they been attacking governments and overthrowing them for the last two million years in Russia, France, Britain… every country’s been through that game. It’s like, it’s like 12th century thinking you’re talking about. Everybody’s done that gig about overthrowing the government. What have you got? New government, exactly the same process, exactly the same system.
– [Man] So you have to change the people?
– Change the people first.
– All right, I agree.
– Slow the whole process down. What’s the hurry? Slow it down and stop it. Now, if you can’t do that, you’ve got to change their minds so they will slow it down or be able to do what they want with it. But attacking Nixon, the American government, or the local MP in person isn’t going to do it. They tried that.
– [Ono] You have to get rid of that concept about “there’s somebody somewhere up there who’s the monster.” We are all responsible of the monster.
– [Lennon] We’re all Frankenstein. We created the monster. We can’t shout at the monster and say, “Don’t be a bad boy and kill me.” You know, we created it.
– [Man] But there’s necessity for a fight, for some kind of a struggle.
– The struggle is in the mind. Physical struggle is nowhere.
– That’s their main object in life is to make money out of their clients and out of their…
– They’re a group of exploiters.
– Well, they exist. Do you think they’re going to let the whole thing fall off their hands and let the people take over?
– [Ono] It will happen.
– [Lennon] The people don’t need the building. Tell them not to buy the exploiters’ goods.
– You see, any enterprise is dependent on people. So people are really actually strong. They can do anything they want if they get together. If the capitalists are doing that to you, all you have to say is no. In other words, you see, we have to use our intelligence to compete with their power.
– [Man] But you’re not the first beautiful people to come out with such ideas and never win.
– But we’re in the water and swimming and we do our best, you know? We think it’ll work.
– Well, I hope for you that it does.
– Well, with your help, it will work. With everybody’s help, it’ll work. All we gotta do is turn people on to the fact that they are the government now and they have the power now. It’s not something that somebody’s gonna give ’em. They have it. It’s that old game of faith in yourself, you know?
– Let’s have faith all together.
– [Ono] OK, great.
– [Lennon] Faith for music. OK?
– [Man] OK.
– Lights off. Very active. Pleased to meet you. Vive la France.
– Vive la France et le Québec libre.
– OK, can we cool it?

– [Lennon] What is all this filming? I mean, what’s it for? If somebody cracked a joke at one of those disarmament conferences, maybe they’d disarm. And as Yoko said, if they had no trousers on when they went to war, maybe they wouldn’t fight so much. Jokes are good, you know. Let’s have more jokes. They’re in hospital with cancer; we’re trying to prevent cancer.
– [Ono] There are certain people, you know, like Al Cap is one of them. Even he is rescuable, I think. “OK, let me have time,” for instance, when 99% of the world starts to say war is obscene, war is indecent, then, you know, he’d feel sort of inhibited to talk about war even.
– [Man] The man who was working in a sweatshop for $25 a week, and has a wife and six kids. Now, he’s being exploited, and he is being subject to much the same kind of violence as the peasant in Vietnam.
– [Lennon] Yeah, we believe that. The war thing is confusing. We’re against all violence.
– OK, now you have to agree that that’s violence in the same time.
– Yeah, sure, sure. We’re against that just as strong as Vietnam. Just as important.
– [Ono] That’s the kind of thing that we’re against, you know.
– [Man] Now, how are you going to tell this man who’s being subject to this kind of violence that it’s not… you can’t, you know… you have to turn the other cheek?
– They have the right to refuse at least. You know, that’s what they said, the Jews during the Nazism concentration camp, they said, “We don’t have any freedom except to say no. You know, we’re living in a small ghetto. The whole world is like a ghetto, and we’re living with them. And we have to face them all the time. We can’t ignore them.” The only way to, you know, change the world is change their minds. Now, we can do that. We can still do that.
– [Lennon] This bed, it’s a platform.

– [Man outside] What John and Yoko are doing here, what the kids are doing in Berkeley, planting trees in the park, and what we’re doing in our campaign for governor is part of this great movement, a revulsion against the old-fashioned politics. And most of these conflicts on the campus or in the ghetto are artificially created by old politicians, like Reagan and Nixon, who thrive on crisis. You know, Nixon wrote this book called My Six Crises. That’s his whole shtick. And the kids don’t buy that, and the turned-on people don’t buy that. There’s no reason for these crises. It’s all manufactured. The military and the police love to have an incident because then they double their forces and double their appropriations and call out the National Guard. They love that. The military and the police, unfortunately, have been given all these war toys, the helicopters and the gas bombs and the shotguns. And we know that if you give these men the war toys, they just gotta use them.

[John Lennon, playing “Happiness is a Warm Gun”] Mommy, you’re so beautiful this morning. I’d like to grab your weave.

– [Man on phone] You don’t get bed sores, do you?
– [Ono] No. We’re so active in bed, you know. There isn’t time to get bed sores.
– Do you paint in bed?
– Do I what?
– Paint.
– Well, I don’t have the time to yet, but, you know, I certainly would like to.
– How do you like Canada?
– Canada is a country with very beautiful vibrations. And it’s a young country with hope.
– Well, let me talk to John again.
– OK, just a second.
– Peace to you.
– [Lennon] Yeah, hi.
– [Man on phone] You want people to, you know, not take part in any violence. But how else are we going to, you know, get our park back?
– It’s a pity that “make love not war” turned out to be a trendy cliché. And if they can’t wait a year or two… as Yoko just said, you don’t get a child and then stretch it to make it into an adult. You’ve got to wait for it to grow.
– Beautiful, beautiful.
– So let’s kiss a cop for Peace Week. If you are in a family, and we’re all in one ghetto, and if we have a, a brother or a sister who’s retarded, you don’t kick the hell out of him. And if the establishment and the squares and the cops are retarded children, then we’ve got to help them. The hippies and the yippies are the hip people. Let them use their hipness and do something hip.
– Keep up the good work.
– And you too, you know. Spread the word, like butter.

– [Man] What formula do you have, say, to end the war in Vietnam?
– [Lennon] Let’s end the war in this room.
– I see. Is there a war?
– Yoko and I say if we two can live together, then there’s a chance for everybody to live together.
– How am I responsible for the Biafra?
– Because you’re part of the world, that’s why, and you’re a human being.

– [Man on phone] Any final messages? It’s just a few seconds.
– [Lennon] Peace, peace, peace, peace, peace, peace, peace, peace, peace, peace, peace, peace, peace, peace, peace, peace, peace. Peace in your mind. Peace on earth. Peace at work. Peace at home. Peace in the world.

[Various voices] How far ahead is the peace movement? You were saying, basically, you have no idea yourself. Is it any closer? Will there ever be peace? Do you think that there is threat from the military and what do we do about people? Do you think that they’ll accept… What do we do? [Overlapping voices, inaudible.] What’s he gonna do with the money? Are you in bed right now? Do you ever get out? What, what do I do?

– [Lennon, singing “Give Peace a Chance”] One, two, one two three four! Everybody’s talking about Bag-is, Shag-ism, Drag-ism, Mad-ism, Rag-ism, Tag-ism, This-ism, That-ism, ism ism ism…
– [Chorus] All we are saying is give peace a chance. ([Lennon interjecting] That’s all we’re saying!) All we are saying is give peace a chance. (Yeah! Come on!)
– Everybody’s talking about ministers, sinisters, bannisters and canisters, bishops and fishops and rabbis and popeyes, and bye-bye, bye-bye.
– All we are saying is give peace a chance. (What are we saying? Give peace a chance!) All we are saying is give peace a chance. (Give it a chance, baby! Give it a try!)
– Let me tell you know, everybody’s talking about revolution, evolution, mass inflation flagellation, regulation, integration, meditation, United Nations, congratulations…
– All we are saying is saying (keep talking!) is give peace a chance. (They can’t ban this one!) All we are saying (Let’s hear it on the west coast!) is give peace a chance. (Oh, let’s! Listen to this!)
– Everybody’s talking ’bout John and Yoko, Timmy Leary, Rosemary, Tommy Smothers, Bobby Dylan, Tommy Cooper, Derek Taylor, Norman Mailer, Alan Ginsberg, Hare Krishna, Hare, Hare Krishna.
– All we are saying is give peace a chance. (Come on! Come on! Come on!) All we are saying is give peace a chance. (Let’s hear it for the squares!) All we are saying is give peace a chance. (Let’s hear it for the hippies and the yippies!) All we are saying is give peace a chance. (Let’s hear it for the people now!) All we are saying is give peace a chance. (Let’s hear it for Hare Krishna!) All we are saying (Hare Krishna!) is give peace a chance. (Everybody now, come on!) All we are saying is give peace a chance. (What are we saying? Let me hear it!) All we are saying is give peace a chance. (Everybody now, come on!) All we are saying (You won’t get it unless you want it! And we want it now!) is give peace a chance. All we are saying (Come together!) is give peace a chance. (Come together, all together!) All we are saying is give peace a chance. (Can anybody hear me?) All we are saying (We can get it tomorrow, today!) is give peace a chance. (If you really want it, now, OK now!) All we are saying is give peace a chance. (Yes, yeah!) All we are saying is give peace a chance. (OK, beautiful!)
– [Lennon, speaking] Hare Krishna! Hare Krishna! OK, lights off. Let’s rest.
– [Ono] Great!

– [Waiter] Good morning, sir.
– [Lennon] Good morning. Oh, let me have something to eat.
– Over beside the table?
– Just there, that will do, that’s fine.
– Just here?
– Yeah. No, not over there. Yeah, I’ll do it. Just to the end there. Thank you.
– Want the panel up?
– Yeah.
– Orange juice?
– [Ono] Yes, please. Ah, this is good.
– [Lennon] Yeah.

[Singing] I’ve got you under my spell.

– [Lennon] Good morning, Mrs. Lennon. How are you today on your seventh day? Can you tell me how it’s been, your little lie-in? Do you plan to do any more?
– [Ono] I plan to do a hundred lie-ins, as long as it’s done.
– Well, what do you think is the effect you’re going to have on the world with this lying in bed like that?
– I don’t know about the world, but I know what effect it’s gonna have to my husband.
– Oh, you sexy bitch.

– [Man] So that it’s like a brush?
– [Ono] Yes.
– So that it has to work that way.
– Have you had your breakfast yet, or what?
– No, not yet. I will have some.
– Oh, you know, there’s some breakfast here you can have. Tea, toast, and scrambled eggs?
– Tea, toast? And scrambled eggs.
– Yes, scrambled eggs.
– [Lennon] Yeah, for three.
– [Ono] For three.
– It’s worth coming for tea and toast in bed.
– Yes. Tea and toast and scrambled eggs.

– [Ono] It’s over here, John. Here.
– [Lennon] Oh, I’m fine. Get some marmalade.
– [Photographer] No, wait. I want to get Yoko.
– Breakfast for peace.

[Radio Host] 6:30 with Charles P. Rodney Chandler. Oh, look at our final night from the bedroom of John and Yoko, here at the Queen Elizabeth Hotel. And look, we feel like… We feel like saying goodbye to our family here, because we’ve got guys like Mike, guys like Nic, and of course, there’s John and Yoko, and there’s been Richard, and then there’s been Derek, and Roger Scott, one of our expatriates. Oh, I don’t know where he is right now. Roger, would you like to come over here and say goodbye to everybody, too?
– [Roger] Goodbye, everybody. This is a very sad moment.
– It’s a very sad moment, isn’t it?
– It is.
– Because you have to say goodbye to such old friends.
– Yes.
– And creeps.
– Drinking pals.
– Yes. Like Mike. And like Nic, you know, who play cameraman and sound man but really have no idea. They don’t know, the poor devils. I’ve got to find out what I’m doing… Hi! I’m just going on film for these guys. OK.
– [Man] It’s still rolling, Chuck.
– [Host] CFOX, line number what? Mercy? OK. Goodbye. OK, let’s go back to Roger again. Roger by the bedside. What’s happening?
– [Roger] This is the last night.
– [Lennon] Yes.
– And I don’t know how you’ve lasted. I don’t know how you’ve done it. But you certainly look remarkable after this week. I just couldn’t imagine…
– You don’t look bad yourself, Ducky.
– Well, thank you. But you feel you’ve accomplished something, cause…
– Well, I think we got the message over, Roger. And I think the message is catching on. The peace message. Chuck, don’t you think so, Chuck? The peace message is catching on. Right, he thinks so. And we met a lot of groovy people and made some good contacts. Right?
– For tomorrow?
– For tomorrow, who knows?

– [Ono] We talked to many people who live in this country. I don’t wanna smoke herb, because I don’t want the kids to see it.
– [Lennon] So we’ve got one more to do.
– And then we have packing to do and then we are free.
We don’t have to do last-minute packing, do we?
We have to decide which clothes we’ll wear for two days.
– Oh, that’s easy. Two days. That’s two shirts, one suit. OK?
– That’s two sets of clothes, no?
– Well, women might need more clothes, I don’t know.
– Because we are objects.
– That’s their own fault.
– Objects of sexual fantasy.
– Why don’t you get a job?
– It’s an image.
– Look, I’m disgusted at you.
– I know. You’re not disgusted, are you?
– Spoken like a human being. No press, no comments. No press!
– What is the concept of high heels? Just think of that. See if you remember.
– Towering tall women?
– No! Men love to see them looking insecure, my dear.
– Now is that what it is?
– It’s easier to attack.
– I think high heels are one of the greatest weapons women ever got.
– It’s creating a situation where it’s easier for sexual assault.
– Well, give them a weapon to defend themselves.
– Carrying an umbrella is better.
– I don’t like high heels. I don’t know what you’re picking on me for.
– I’m not picking on you.
– She’s got a woman thing on today, you know, about the inequality of women. She’d like to say a few words about it. Come on, tell us your point of view about the woman’s problem.
– I’m too sleepy for that!
– What is the problem, exactly?
– The problem of women…
– [Singing] Give girls a chance. [Speaking] I’ll let you know my hope of women, Yoko. Ow, ow, ow, ow, ow!
– Dirty pig bastard.
– Did you hear that, ladies and gentlemen? That’s what women have done for us. Dirty pig bastard! Go away!

[Ono singing] Remember love, remember love. Love is what it takes to see. Remember love, remember love. Love is what it takes to meet. Remember love, remember love. Love is what it takes to live. Remember love, remember love. Love is what it takes to dream. Remember love, remember love. Love is what it takes to see. Remember love, remember love. Love is what it takes to leave.

– [Child 1] Johnny Lennon! Hi, John!
– [Child 2] Hi, Yoko!
– [Kyoko] A nice little girl and boy.
– [Lennon] Yeah.
– Mummy, isn’t she nice? That was cool. That was very cool!
– Peace!

– [Kyoko] That was so fun! I’m through with it now.
– [Man 1] Follow the pipes down there…
– I just feel like jumping in the water.
– Tell them to watch the board here, would you, please?
– [Man 2] Watch the board.

[Lennon] All we’ve come here to say to you is peace to you, we love you. And we can get peace if we want it. OK? Peace.

[Lennon singing “Instant Karma!”] Instant karma’s gonna get you. Gonna knock you right on the head. You’d better get yourself together. Pretty soon you’re gonna be dead. What in the world are you thinking now? Laughing in the face of love? What on earth are you trying to do? It’s up to you, yeah you! Instant karma’s gonna get you. Gonna look you right in the face. Better get yourself together, darlin’. Join the human race. How in the world you gonna see? Laughing at fools like me? Who on earth do you think you are? A superstar? Well, all right, you are. Well, we all shine on like the moon and the stars and the sun. Well, we all shine on… Everyone, come on! Instant karma’s gonna get you. Gonna knock you off your feet. Better recognize your brothers, everyone you meet. Why in the world are we here? Surely not to live in pain and fear? Why on earth are you there, when you’re everywhere? Come and get your share. Well, we all shine on like the moon and the stars and the sun. Yeah, we all shine on. Come on and on and on, on, on… Yeah, yeah. All right. Ah-ha. Ah! Well, we all shine on like the moon and the stars and the sun. Yeah, we all shine on. On and on and on, on and on… Well, we all shine on like the moon and the stars and the sun. Well, we all shine on like the moon and the stars and the sun. Well, we all shine on… like the moon and the stars and the sun… well, we all shine on…

[Yoko Ono] oh

ha

I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know.

I don’t know.

Ah

Ah

Ah

Ah

Ah

Ah Ah

Ah

Ah

Wah Wah Wah

Wah Wah Wah Wah Oh

Oh

Oh

Oh

Oh

Oh

Oh

Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh

Oh

Oh

Oh

Oh

Oh

Oh

Huh, huh

Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Huh Oh Oh

Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

[Museum employee] There’s no Yoko Ono show here.

[Man 1] I came Wednesday when it opened and they told me that it didn’t exist, so I came back today to look at it again.

[Interviewer] Are you familiar with Yoko’s work?

[Man] I’ve never seen anything, but I’ve read of films. She just makes films of 365 behinds. I saw her film of the body with the fly walking on it. So this could just be another one of her strange ideas for a film.

[Man] We know all over the country people are accepting bribes, and I look into this museum and I’m quite confident there is somebody either psychologically unadjusted or either he’s taking some money that is influencing his way of thinking. And I think it’s about time they looked into this because I feel it’s 100% fake. I’m an artist myself and I’ve seen good and bad. Nothing in here, I’m going to use a simple word, stinks.

[Interviewer] How did you like Yoko Ono’s show?

[Woman] Well, it was a little different, I have to admit.

[Interviewer] Can I ask you, did you enjoy Yoko Ono’s show?

[Woman] I certainly did.

[Interviewer] Thank you.

[Woman] I was a little mad about getting here and not finding it, but I think it’s pretty funny.

[Interviewer] Excuse me, sir. Yes. Did you see Yoko Ono’s show?

[Man] I was amazingly disappointed when it wasn’t there.

[Interviewer] It’s here, sir, 1st to the 15th. It’s mainly in people’s minds.

[Man] I figured it might be for that, I didn’t see it at all. I wasn’t thinking of Yoko except the publicity which said it would be here and then it wasn’t.

[Interviewer] Well, it’s here, but it’s a conceptual show, it’s not a tangible one.

[Man] Sort of projective, right? Yeah. Thanks very much.

[Interviewer] Thank you.

[Man] Yoko? Ono. Oh, Yoko Ono, yes. No, I didn’t see it. What is it?

[Interviewer] Do you like her work?

[Man] I don’t know much about her. She’s Japanese, isn’t she?

[Interviewer] Yes.

[Interviewer] Have you had many inquiries about Yoko’s show?

[Man] I have indeed.

[Interviewer] What’s the reaction?

[Man] In general, it’s dubious.

[Interviewer] It’s a conceptual show. Could you give this lady a piece of the paper?

[Woman] Who wrote this?

[Interviewer] Yoko wrote that.

[Background voices] Oh, that’s a friend. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Oh, thank you. Thank you.

[Woman] I didn’t see any flies.

[Interviewer] What do you think of Yoko Ono’s show?

[Man] I didn’t see it.

[Interviewer] Did you come to see it?

[Man] Yes, and after reading this…

[Interviewer] It’s a conceptual show?

[Man] Yeah, yes. What do you think of it?

[Man] I thought it was very good.

[Woman] I didn’t understand it.

[Woman] What are you doing here, asking such dumb questions?

[Interviewer] Well, we’re just trying to find out about Yoko’s show.

[Woman] Well, I’d like to see it. Why don’t you get it for us?

[Interviewer] What do you think about that?

[Woman] There’s no such thing.

[Woman] I think she’s great. I think she’s great. She’s absolutely great. Of course she is. She’s super. She’s smarter than John, to tell the truth.

[Interviewer] Did you see her show at the Everson?

[Woman] No, I didn’t. No, it’s a marvelous museum, too.

[Interviewer] I see.

[Woman] Did you?

[Interviewer] Yes.

[Woman] You’re not answering questions. OK.

[Interviewer] Yes, I answered them.

[Woman] Yes.

[Interviewer] You want to ask me questions?

[Woman] Did you eat the apple? Are you the one that ate the apple?

[Interviewer] No, I didn’t.

[Woman] Somebody ate the apple. Somebody did. Yes.

[Interviewer] What do you think about the idea of a conceptual—

[Woman] What’s that?

[Interviewer] That’s a camera.

[Woman] Oh, it has a funny lens on it.

[Interviewer] Let me tell you about the show that Yoko’s doing here. She’s doing a conceptual show in which the entire show is up to you.

[Woman] Yeah.

[Interviewer] What do you think about that?

[Woman] Well, then maybe she didn’t even have to show up. In other words, if I’m the show, why should I have to go to see Yoko Ono?

[Interviewer] Exactly.

[Woman] Exactly what?

[Interviewer] That’s the point.

[Woman] What’s the point?

[Interviewer] That there is no show here.

[Woman] Of Yoko Ono.

[Interviewer] That’s right. And anybody that came to see it.

[Woman] But now you’ve made me disappointed.

[Interviewer] Oh, but you weren’t before.

[Woman] Because I hadn’t expected to see Yoko Ono, who’s not here. You finally come out and told me the truth.

[Interviewer] Yes. What do you think the idea is?

[Woman] But I would like to see Yoko Ono.

[Interviewer] You would?

[Woman] Yeah. I see.

[Interviewer] Well, she is doing a show here, and this is it.

[Woman] You’re it?

[Interviewer] No, we’re not it. Oh. The fact that there’s no show.

[Woman] Are you hired by her to come here and do this foolishness?

[Interviewer] No, we’re not hired by her.

[Woman] Oh.

[Interviewer] We’re just asking people.

[Woman] What is it?

[Interviewer] Well, there was an ad in the Village Voice that Yoko was doing a show here.

[Woman] You have red glasses.

[Interviewer] Yes.

[Woman] Why do you wear red glasses?

[Woman] Maybe I should interview you. What are you doing here? How old are you? How much do you weigh? You’re stunning. What’s your name?

[Interviewer] My name is Bob Fried.

[Woman] We’re talking to the camera. They’d like to see you.

[Interviewer] OK.

[Interviewer] Well, it’s a conceptual show.

[Man] Oh, you mean it’s a whole entire entity type of a thing. Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer] In other words, the entire.

[Man] I thought it was really good then, if you put it that way.

[Interviewer] What do you think of that kind of a show?

[Man] I think it’s a, you mean like a total environment type of a thing.

[Interviewer] A total conceptual show.

[Man] Sort of like the entire world in general can be a show. You want to see my show? Here it is.

[Interviewer] Are you familiar with Yoko’s work at all?

[Woman] Yes, a little bit.

[Interviewer] What do you think of it? I’ve never been quite sure when I think of it.

[Interviewer] I see. No strong opinion.

[Woman] I have a strong opinion about John, though.

[Interviewer] Which is what?

[Woman] I think it’s pretty good.

[Interviewer] Did you know that Yoko is having a show here?

[Woman] Oh, no, really? No, I said to Anne, in fact, I said, gee, we should see what’s doing at the museum before we go up there. No, I didn’t. But I’ll be happy to take it in whatever it is.

[Woman] Well, I think it’s a bit bonkers. Do you know what bonkers is?

[Interviewer] No, what’s that mean? Crazy, is it?

[Woman] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That’s good old Liverpoolian bonkers, you know.

[Interviewer] I see. Yeah. Yeah.

[Interviewer] Thank you very much.

[Woman] You know, I think it’s too far out for me anyway.

[Child] Well, like, maybe if you look at a picture, then you can think of a whole bunch of different things. You know?

[Interviewer] Right. Except if you take it a step farther, there’s no picture to look at it. It’s just all in your head. It’s just what you think.

[Child] Then you would have a very good museum there.

[Interviewer] Right.

[Child] Real neato.

[Interviewer] That’s Yoko’s show.

[Child] Oh, very good show. I like that.

[Yoko Ono] Hello? This is Yoko.

 

[Yoko Ono]Thank you, thank you. Thank you for being here today.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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Ah Ah Ah Ah Ah Uh Ah Oh Ah Uh Oh Uh Oh Ah Oh Pause, pause, pause, pause.

Yes, yes, yes.

Let be…

Thank you.